Sharp Aquos 80" TV ~ Model # LC-80LE844U ~ Not operational, Take 2

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  • CoppellTVRepair
    Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 47

    #1

    Sharp Aquos 80" TV ~ Model # LC-80LE844U ~ Not operational, Take 2

    There's a thread on the site titled "Sharp Aquos 80" TV ~ Model # LC-80LE844U ~ Not operational", detailing the process of the most common problem affecting power supply board PSD-0888D.

    For the sake of bringing something of value I'd also add (even though it probably belongs in the thread itself) that what's described there is one of the TWO possible variants of the failure - blown IC, blown fusable resistor 2.2 Ohm or 2 Ohm.
    The other is an internally failed, but not shorted IC, resulting in resistor that's still intact, but the board spontaneously losing power after anywhere from a few seconds to a few minutes of operation.
    In other words, when in doubt, always replace the IC. (in fact I personally simply always replace the IC, whether doubting or not - it's fast, easy, cheap and insures client won't come back during warranty because of an aged and finally broken IC...that's my general philosophy and approach to all common failures).

    This post is about a problem that gives almost the same failure symptom, but definitely has a different origin, which, for the life of me, I can't figure out.
    What is happening is the board starts, the relay clicks, the PFC raises momentarily to somewhere above 300V - like 310V or so, but not 380V-400V it should go, at least not by the Fluke, the secondary DCs all show up as they should and then, practically immediately, the PFC starts going down, apparently turned off.
    The PFC driver is UCC28061 and it is definitely not the issue.
    It's been a while since I last spent a night chasing this before giving up, but today yet another one of those board showed up with the same issue.
    Unfortunately I can't find my previous notes, but I do remember I found the following: If I cut a certain track of an IC in the surroundings of the PFC driver the PFC stayed on and produced 396V as it should.
    I got to this track while chasing the signal causing the shutdown, but that's what I remember from it...and the suspicion it may be some of the high voltage dividing resistors to have gone off and cause all this.

    This is one of those nasty issues where things aren't exactly failed so you can just track down the short and take care of it (not that those can't have nasty side issues to kill your sleep, but it's less often).
    It's luckily not a problem where you have to wait an hour for a spontaneous shutdown either - it's quite persistent and reproducible.
    Yet in several multi-hour attempts over the pat few months I've failed to nail it.

    Any help will be appreciated and I wouldn't at all mind paying for the knowledge...I am by no means novice to electronic repairs, but I don't quite consider myself professional either, even though most people probably would consider me such.
    It's just that I know real professionals and I know I am not their level...and likely never will be.
    I am just someone who usually finds solutions to problems and this one I so far can't.

    TIA,
    Bobby
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  • CoppellTVRepair
    Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 47

    #2
    Ah, forgot to say...the cut track, while keeping the board up and keeping the PFC does not appear to be a solution to the problem.
    I do not have the whole TV, unfortunately, I do most power board repairs merely bench testing.
    I believe I've tried that hack with a customer once before and they reported it didn't fix the TV; could be the hack is not sufficient, could be the TV had other problems too.

    Comment

    • nomoresonys
      Badcaps Legend
      • Jan 2013
      • 12334
      • U.S.

      #3
      Can you post a picture of the top of the board? You're sure that it's not a capacitor issue?

      Comment

      • nomoresonys
        Badcaps Legend
        • Jan 2013
        • 12334
        • U.S.

        #4
        Here's Nick's fixing a board, might help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZfsaGlJPX4

        Comment

        • CoppellTVRepair
          Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 47

          #5
          Originally posted by nomoresonys
          Here's Nick's fixing a board, might help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZfsaGlJPX4
          No offense meant and definitely not trying to start a war here or even a pissing contest, but Nick used to send us boards he couldn't repair and follow our videos for clues...not sure if he still does, it's irrelevant.

          However it may sound I am keen on believing I sill have the technical edge on him.

          He's a good kid, nothing against him whatsoever, it's just I really and honestly do not think I can learn how to repair power circuits from him. Still repairing an occasional XVTx73SV main board with NTR stamp on it :-)

          But this one has me stumped and I am of the opinion there are at least a few people on this site that are at least a level above me and will always be.

          For the last time, no offense meant to anyone...I just call it as I see it and fully aware I could be wrong. Has happened more than once in the past, but life's too short to be modest.

          Comment

          • CoppellTVRepair
            Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 47

            #6
            Originally posted by nomoresonys
            Can you post a picture of the top of the board? You're sure that it's not a capacitor issue?
            I thought it would be kind of pollution to just upload pictures that are already there...should have included the link to the post I was referring to, sorry...it has all the pictures already and what's missing I can upload:
            https://www.badcaps.net/forum/troubl...ot-operational

            I can also draw up the schematic from the board...I know I did at some point and found at least one instance of a bad high voltage divider resistor...which is why I suspect one of those.

            If it is a cap it is highly unlikely to be a standard electrolytic one. The usual suspects have all been checked and/or replaced - it's frankly easier to replace them than to bother ESR checking.

            I've seen similar behavior in other power supply boards and never got the hang of what's causing it...it's almost as if the voltage does not raise fast enough and it may be UVP that kicks in...but that's a speculation based on my mind trying to fit an explanation.

            I posted yesterday without preparation because I remember the last time I spent like 4-5 hours between a working board and a bad one and eventually gave up hoping I'd just never see one of them again...but sure enough I did and there's a customer waiting to get their TV working.

            And I just hate failures....who doesn't :-/

            Comment

            • Diah
              Badcaps Legend
              • Feb 2013
              • 6647
              • Germany

              #7
              the cutting Track of Q7204 to keep PFC mean fault on it

              Comment

              • nomoresonys
                Badcaps Legend
                • Jan 2013
                • 12334
                • U.S.

                #8
                Indeed Bobby, I've seen your videos too. You and Nick have a great depth of knowledge, no doubt about it. I'm not a pro, just enthusiast, I usually forget things as fast as I learn them. I remember seeing a similar situation where the cold side was outputting proper voltages but not the pfc. In that particular one if I recall it was a problem in the feedback circuit but damn if I can remember exactly what.

                Comment

                • CoppellTVRepair
                  Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 47

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Diah
                  the cutting Track of Q7204 to keep PFC mean fault on it
                  Not necessarily, the best proof of which is that the PFC *is* working when the track is cut.

                  I may get back to the drawing board once I do the other tasks...which kind of never ends, especially now that I am back at writing software (which is a lot of fun I've recently lost reverse engineering electric circuits), but in the meantime I believe I've cut either the final or at least one of the feedback signals that shut down the PFC...like OVP and UVP.

                  So it might not be the PFC itself that is bad, it may be the watchdogs or it may be simply (and that's what I think) that it's just that the output voltage is raising slower than expected or with more fluctuations, so a watchdog may be incorrectly triggered.

                  Or it could be that one of the secondary voltages is raising too slow for same or different reasons. I already forgot what I conclude the last time, but my memory is I suspect the high voltage dividers in the PFC circuit and have stopped looking at the secondary side...though they are ultimately all added up as one suppress signal to the PFC driver.

                  Comment

                  • Diah
                    Badcaps Legend
                    • Feb 2013
                    • 6647
                    • Germany

                    #10
                    Originally posted by CoppellTVRepair
                    So it might not be the PFC itself that is bad, it may be the watchdogs or it may be simply (and that's what I think) that it's just that the output voltage is raising slower than expected or with more fluctuations, so a watchdog may be incorrectly triggered.
                    you are mixing 2 different shoes in one legs..
                    watchdog had nothings to do , or any part of Firmware.. its PFC you have value changed ( raised up ) of one R at circuit..

                    Comment

                    • CoppellTVRepair
                      Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 47

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Diah
                      you are mixing 2 different shoes in one legs..
                      watchdog had nothings to do , or any part of Firmware.. its PFC you have value changed ( raised up ) of one R at circuit..
                      My terminology may be wrong...as I said I am back into software and happen to be implementing watchdogs currently...sorry.
                      But in the electronics field I call "watchdogs" the circuits responsible for monitoring various failure conditions (OVP, UVP, lack of secondary), which all could cause the PFC to shut down. They may not be "active" watchdogs as in the software world and again my terminology in that regard may be incorrect and misleading, for which I apologize.

                      My logic was to exclude (hack) all possible sources of the PFC shutting down thus eventually discovering which one of them is causing it....and that's what lead me to this track.

                      By no means I intend to argue, I am just sharing my thought process and am certainly open for education.

                      Comment

                      • lotas
                        Badcaps Legend
                        • Jan 2016
                        • 4966
                        • Russia

                        #12
                        Maybe something will help

                        Check, replace this string of resistors... Over time, the "glue" under these resistors starts to leak.

                        Attached Files

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                        Last edited by lotas; 12-03-2025, 02:49 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Diah
                          Badcaps Legend
                          • Feb 2013
                          • 6647
                          • Germany

                          #13
                          Originally posted by CoppellTVRepair
                          My logic was to exclude (hack) all possible sources of the PFC shutting down thus eventually discovering which one of them is causing it....and that's what lead me to this track. By no means I intend to argue, I am just sharing my thought process and am certainly open for education.
                          watchdog / E-Fuse are listed at TV, but they are much tricked on MICOM / Controller / SoC at MB when there are SOS signal come from other parts such like T-CON..
                          for example we switch off Watchdog at NVM within Philips OLED TV... to let the TV remain on if there celle on OLED Module pull more currents.
                          yours work now only PSU on bench with out other TV Parts like swimming in ocean to reach dream land.
                          Last edited by Diah; 12-03-2025, 02:34 PM.

                          Comment

                          • nomoresonys
                            Badcaps Legend
                            • Jan 2013
                            • 12334
                            • U.S.

                            #14
                            Maybe a bad opto.

                            Comment

                            • R_J
                              Badcaps Legend
                              • Jun 2012
                              • 9635
                              • Canada

                              #15
                              By cutting the trace you have disconnected Q7204B base, Q7204B emitter should have 16vdc (vcc voltage) and its collector voltage would be set by ic7202, I suspect Q7204B collector is going high and that turns on the base of Q7204A, which conducts taking ic7201 pin2 (vsense) low shutting it down. I suspect under normal conditions Q7204A would be turned off so I would check the resistors etc around ic7202 or ic7202 might be bad?
                              Also make sure your vcc voltage is 16vdc A weak C7114 or C7226 could cause high frequency noise on the vcc line

                              With the trace cut and pfc working you likely have around 6vdc on ic7201 pin2 with the trace connected I suspect that voltage is near 0v because Q7204a is turned on.
                              Last edited by R_J; 12-03-2025, 09:14 PM.

                              Comment

                              • nomoresonys
                                Badcaps Legend
                                • Jan 2013
                                • 12334
                                • U.S.

                                #16
                                Any update on this Bob?

                                Comment

                                • CoppellTVRepair
                                  Member
                                  • Dec 2010
                                  • 47

                                  #17
                                  It was one of those weekends where I had to work both days on unique problems for overdue customers...first time (out of easily hundreds) seeing audio IC go bad on LG 55LV series, first time Samsung BN44-01264A repetitive failure, first time Vizio M60-D1 (I think) main board failure...I just never made it to the Sharp.
                                  Did I also mention I am in the meantime writing software at night? :-)
                                  This week will be dealing with the Sharp.
                                  My plan was to replace the high voltage resistor dividers, but I also want to measure and confirm what @R_J was talking about as his language is the closest to what I refer to "someone who knows this stuff".

                                  If anyone has the schematic post it or DM me if you have concerns posting it in public.

                                  I will give update as soon as there is one.

                                  Comment

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