Insignia NS-27LCD

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

LOL! I like your engineering vocabulary!!! "get stuck", "clog", "hang up"!

Hilarious! Pathetic attempt to sound intelligent.

No, that's an attempt to not make you feel so stupid.
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Well, that and it makes for a less boring read.
.
.

Here's a real explanation:

And you misinterpretation of that explanation is why you should feel stupid.

The Rs shown in Figure 1 is NOT a constant with frequency.
Never had been, never will be.
- I just explained why.

And in fact YOUR reference even specifies that it's only good at one Frequency.

We now have an equivalent circuit that is correct only at the measurement frequency.

So, even your very own reference is telling you you're wrong.
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[Paul678]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

I feel like a genius next to an idiot such as yourself.

I was referring to Ras in Figure. 4.

You need to study up some more....

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

If you understood what you were reading that also enforces my argument.
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That says is Dielectric loss changes with frequency.
That's why it is shown as a variable Resistor [Rd] in Figure 4.
Dielectric loss is part of ESR.
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So again, your very own reference is telling you you're wrong.
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ESR changes with Frequency. - Get over it.
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[Paul678]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

You never had an argument, 'cos you misunderstood me.....

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

I understood you perfectly well.

You claimed ESR does not change due to Frequency.
- It does.

YOUR reference even says so.
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Thanks for picking that one BTW. Most don't mention it and I'd have to look somewhere else for a link.
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Using "'cos" is even worse than using "get stuck", "clog" or "hang up"
Welcome to the vocabulary club.
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[Paul678]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

Wrong. The dielectric loss is modeled as a parallel
resistor. I was talking about the "actual series resistance".

THINK before you assume you understand people....

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

That's only -one component- of ESR.
You are ignoring many others.
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They are ALL there at the same time.
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They are all 'true' parts of 'true' ESR. - Because that's what ESR -IS-.
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IOW: You are trying to argue that ESR does not change with Frequency because ONE thing that adds to it doesn't change with Frequency.
You are deliberately [or ignorantly] ignoring things included in ESR that do change with Frequency.
-
That is EXACTLY like finding the total resistance of a resister network and leaving the values for 1/2 the resistors out of the math.
-
Thus your argument has no merit.
.
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As even YOUR reference shows that ESR changes with frequency.
.


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[Paul678]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

Wrong. You misunderstood me.

I was talking about the ideal, purely real
portion of the ESR, which does not change
with frequency. That's the actual series
resistance.

You are a confused person....

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

Wrong. You misunderstood me.

I was talking about the ideal, purely real
portion of the ESR, which does not change
with frequency. That's the actual series
resistance.

You are a confused person....

No, that's not what you said.

True ESR is the purely real portion of the impedance (pure resistance),
and should ideally not change with frequency, so that's the measurement error of the technique. But the higher the test frequency, the less you charge
the cap, and the less the capacitive reactance. Too high a test frequency
would also be bad, because then the parasitic inductance of the cap starts to kick in.

.
.

True ESR is the purely real portion of the impedance (pure resistance),
and should ideally not change with frequency,

WRONG - While it is "pure resistance", it is also variable and it DOES change with Frequency.
[If you are unfamiliar with "variable "pure" resistance" then look up "variable resistor".]
That's how it works. Get over it.
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There is also no such animal as: "True ESR" BTW.
"TRUE Equivalent" would be an oxymoron.
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so that's the measurement error of the technique.

Also wrong. Discussed earlier.
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But the higher the test frequency, the less you charge the cap

Wrong again.
AC doesn't charge caps, DC does.
.

and the less the capacitive reactance.

Xc doesn't have anything to do with the value of ESR.
[In fact you can clearly see that in cap data sheets. ESR varies with the can size and uF [hence Xc] doesn't have squat to do with it.
.
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[Paul678]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

You are wrong.

I was talking about the actual resistance, which
does not change with frequency.

Hit the books more, son.....

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

You are wrong.

I was talking about the actual resistance, which
does not change with frequency.

Hit the books more, son.....

Unlike yourself I actually comprehend what I read.
- Your own references say you're wrong.
.

[Paul678]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

Incorrect. My reference says I'm right.

The actual series resistance does not change with frequency.

Get over it, and hit the books more.....

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

So now you claim the electrolyte and dielectric are not in series with the leads.
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YUP, comprehension issues galore!
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Guess what. - They ARE in series with the leads.
And YOUR reference says their resistance changes with frequency.
[Because it does.]
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[Paul678]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

Look at Fig. 4.

The dielectric loss is modeled as a parallel resistor.

I'm talking about the actual series resistance.

Get over it, you are wrong.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

I did look at Fig. 4.

So you don't know how to do that either... Go figger.

They show [Rl] in parallel with [Rd].
Rl is a DC consideration and as your reference says it's around 10 Giga-ohms.
It's not actually applicable to ESR but for your sake I'll go with it.

In combination Rd and Rl are a parallel pair.
They are NOT in parallel with the leads - just each other.

As a unit they are in series with the leads.

They are BOTH part of the series resistance.
They are both 'pure' resistance as you call it.

Either one changing will change the total series resistance.

And YOUR reference says flat out that Rd changes with frequency.
- Thus the actual series resistance changes with frequency.

You obviously don't understand what you are reading.
.

[Paul678]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

Wrong. Again, the actual series resistance in
Fig. 4 does NOT change with frequency.

It's you who does not comprehend.....

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

.
Since you don't know how to read schematics either maybe one of the equations out of YOUR reference will help.
.

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[Paul678]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

Boy, you are a real numb-nut, aren't you?

Look at the equation you posted: Ras is the actual
series resistance....that doesn't change with frequency!

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

If you actually read the description of that factor, and understood capacitors, you would realize immediately that they tagged it with an inappropriate name.
[That's a problem you ran into trying to explain things you don't understand with google.]
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It is nothing but the resistance of the metals.
It's ~FAR~ from being the only component of series resistance in a cap.
And all of them are -actual- resistance - and in series.
.
.
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When I first found this site I had all the same misconceptions you have right now.
But that was 6 years ago.
.

[Paul678]

Re: Insignia NS-27LCD

You really are a Grumpy Old Fart, aren't you? haha!

The purely real portion of an impedance is non-frequency
dependent.

Read up on it.....