Element FLX-3211B no picture

[junktv]

I have a element FLX-3211B LCD (Similar to Polaroid 3211TLXB) that went out on me. It lights up for a couple seconds when you turn it on then the picture fades out and it's done. There is a red led inside on the board that flashes.

What it does basically.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7mRwlXrkgg
Not my vid.

From reading a previous thread it suggest these caps for replacing the bulged HEC 10uf 450v cap i took out. Well i pulled both but one still looks good. Is this the correct one i need?

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...2W100&x=31&y=8

If you notice in my pics the large cap on the right of the power board is bulging also.I t's a little different though since it has a plastic cover on the top so i'm not sure if this is normal or if it could be bad also. Should i go ahead and replace it also? The only thing i can see on it are the numbers 25/105/v28.


Another question i have is they talk about adding a fan and i'm wondering how i would get power to it. I have some pc fans laying around from 40-120mm i'm just not sure where to tap in for power or if i would need to get a 120v fan and solder to the plug.

Thanks and sorry for the bad pics.

[PlainBill]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

I have a element FLX-3211B LCD (Similar to Polaroid 3211TLXB) that went out on me. It lights up for a couple seconds when you turn it on then the picture fades out and it's done. There is a red led inside on the board that flashes.

What it does basically.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7mRwlXrkgg
Not my vid.

From reading a previous thread it suggest these caps for replacing the bulged HEC 10uf 450v cap i took out. Well i pulled both but one still looks good. Is this the correct one i need?

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...2W100&x=31&y=8

If you notice in my pics the large cap on the right of the power board is bulging also.I t's a little different though since it has a plastic cover on the top so i'm not sure if this is normal or if it could be bad also. Should i go ahead and replace it also? The only thing i can see on it are the numbers 25/105/v28.


Another question i have is they talk about adding a fan and i'm wondering how i would get power to it. I have some pc fans laying around from 40-120mm i'm just not sure where to tap in for power or if i would need to get a 120v fan and solder to the plug.

Thanks and sorry for the bad pics.

If a capacitor is physically deformed it is bad and must be replaced. A cap that is not obviously deformed may still be bad. As was mentioned in the other thread, the original was a crap brand. NOW, here's how to logically evaluate the problem.
1. When this cap fails it causes certain symptoms
2. Your TV has those symptoms
3. The original part was of low quality.
4. Caps can fail without obvious physical signs.
QED, replace the cap.

As you pointed out, the other cap has a plastic disk on top. This is for insulation, if it bulges it does not affect the operation of the cap. Try pressing it down to see if the top of the metal 'can' under it is flat. If it is, there is no need to replace the cap.

The cap failed because it was inferior, not because of excessive heat. Unless it's properly placed, adding a fan will simply move the air around inside the case without improving cooling. If you insist on trying this bad idea, hook it across the 5V output.

PlainBill

[junktv]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

Thanks ,Plainbill.

Pushed in with a flathead screw driver since i couldn't get a finger in there. The large cap definitely seems flat or atleast not bulged much if at all.

Guess i'll just give those panasonic caps a whirl then and hope for the best. My idea was more than likely going to be 1 or 2 low rpm 120mm's blowing in the vents from the back but i honestly have no clue what wire is what other than the plug coming into the set for power.

[PlainBill]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

Thanks ,Plainbill.

Pushed in with a flathead screw driver since i couldn't get a finger in there. The large cap definitely seems flat or atleast not bulged much if at all.

Guess i'll just give those panasonic caps a whirl then and hope for the best. My idea was more than likely going to be 1 or 2 low rpm 120mm's blowing in the vents from the back but i honestly have no clue what wire is what other than the plug coming into the set for power.

HINT: Most power supplies have labels on the output connector indicating the voltage on the pins.

PlainBill

[junktv]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

That they do ,Plainbill. Thanks for pointing that out as i never would've noticed. I would have been scouring the net trying to find a pinout schematic.

Well 40 miles and $8 later i now have 2 elgen caps with the same specs other than they say vent and the hecs didn't. Any input on if these are good or bad? I figure if nothing else i can replace them at a later date. All i really found on elgen here is someone had one go bad recently in a old tandy 1000.

Looks like a may have found a new problem also. Looks like one of these little fuse links(O13) went bad. The red dot looks like somthing is missing but the solder doesn't look broken off or freshly melted. I'm wondering if anything was really there.

[PlainBill]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

That they do ,Plainbill. Thanks for pointing that out as i never would've noticed. I would have been scouring the net trying to find a pinout schematic.

Well 40 miles and $8 later i now have 2 elgen caps with the same specs other than they say vent and the hecs didn't. Any input on if these are good or bad? I figure if nothing else i can replace them at a later date. All i really found on elgen here is someone had one go bad recently in a old tandy 1000.

Looks like a may have found a new problem also. Looks like one of these little fuse links(O13) went bad. The red dot looks like somthing is missing but the solder doesn't look broken off or freshly melted. I'm wondering if anything was really there.

Ahem. That's C13.

As far as the replacement caps, as far as I can tell, the Taiwanese manufacturer is out of business. Offhand, I'd say it's doubtful if they are even as good as the original. You understand that there is a reason we suggest going with name brand parts from a reliable distributor. Good quality parts would have cost $1.04 each plus under $3.00 for shipping. Barnum again.

PlainBill

[junktv]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

Correct it is C13, I shouldn't look at tiny writing when i'm tired and have been drinking.

I'm still not sure if anything was there though or what to put back. When looking at a pic another member(elbtax) posted previous thread i linked. It almost appears to show something similar to C6.
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...1&postcount=33Also only the last two sets of #'s on our boards match.


I'm guilty of being impatient and not wanting to go all week without a tv/monitor. I was shocked i found what i did in my area not to mention on a saturday. I need other caps anyway so no biggy to put an order in and when they come in swap them out with those panasonics. I already have the elgens soldered on the board i just haven't tried it yet not knowing if it may damage something else if something was in C13. I'm not sure what those are even called or what they look like if they are bad. Not to mention what part# to get since it's missing.

[PlainBill]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

C13 was not used as far as I can tell. If you look at the adjacent smd components you will notice a red material under each of them. That is glue used to anchor the part during the manufacturing process. While the picture isn't the best, there is no sign there ever was a part placed at that location.

That is not uncommon. Usually a board is designed for all possible configurations; if a function is not needed for a particular application the components are not installed.

PlainBill

[junktv]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

That's what i was thinking when looking at the solder in that spot but not sure if it would reflow if whatever blew off. Does look like something was dabbed on the red stuff when it was drying since it lacks any defined marks or shine that the others have. So do you think it's safe to give it a try?

I appreciate the help.

[junktv]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

Well since you didn't say not to try it in your last post i went ahead. Been working 5 minutes.


Now if i can just get the dust out of the screen layers.

[mbates14]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

I have a TV with the same proview chassis. But i think my issue is mainboard related.

Plug it in, it powers on with red LED. press power, it flickers to green and back to red. The whole power supply is running, and all voltages present. so somethings up.

[iChad]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

ThNks all. I fixed mine with this forum.

[junktv]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

Well it almost made it another year. I was looking at the pc at the time and heard a little crackle like someone had stepped on some cellophane. Looked over and the tv didn't have a picture. Figured the same thing happened so took it apart to see if the elgen caps had burst but they still looked good with only slight expansion on one. I figured since i had never put the panasonic caps i ordered in it would be worth a shot.
It turns on and has sound but no picture. There is a red light on the power supply that is flashing but i don't remember if it did that or stayed solid from last time.

[tom66]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

Well it almost made it another year. I was looking at the pc at the time and heard a little crackle like someone had stepped on some cellophane. Looked over and the tv didn't have a picture. Figured the same thing happened so took it apart to see if the elgen caps had burst but they still looked good with only slight expansion on one. I figured since i had never put the panasonic caps i ordered in it would be worth a shot.
It turns on and has sound but no picture. There is a red light on the power supply that is flashing but i don't remember if it did that or stayed solid from last time.

Does the backlight work? (does the screen appear to slightly glow when there is no picture but the set is on?)

Can you see a faint picture if you shine a light at the screen?

[junktv]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

No on backlight.

I about said no but finally see what people mean when they ask if you can see a picture with a light. That is really hard to see but luckily i noticed movement so yes it is showing a faint image. Guess this means i need to look for tubes and figure out how to take the screen apart or could it be something else?

[tom66]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

No on backlight.

I about said no but finally see what people mean when they ask if you can see a picture with a light. That is really hard to see but luckily i noticed movement so yes it is showing a faint image. Guess this means i need to look for tubes and figure out how to take the screen apart or could it be something else?

Nope, it could also be an inverter problem and that's *far* easier to fix.

Bad CCFLs can happen, but they are less likely to happen than a bad inverter. The CCFLs in a TV should last the same length of time as your average CFL bulb, or around 15,000-20,000 hours. Whereas the life timer on most TVs with bad inverters is around 8,000 hours.

I hope you don't have to replace the CCFLs as that is a pain in the proverbial behind.

First, have the back off of the TV. Then, we can do some checks.

The inverter is usually on one or the other side of the TV and will have a pair of pink/white cables coming out of a number of connectors, usually more than two and often as many as 10-15 depending on screen size.

Next to each of these connectors there will be roughly rectangular shaped objects which are the transformers.

With power disconnected (very important) you need to test the resistance of each of these transformer's secondaries using a digital multimeter. You identify the secondaries by looking for the pins closest to the connector (if unsure, post a picture first.) The resistances should all be the same, or within 3%. But there will hopefully be an outlier, a transformer which has gone bad. That will measure a different value. Report back the values found.

I've attached a picture of an inverter. Yours may look different. The grey objects are the transformers.

[junktv]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

I have the panel off which allows access to the boards seen in post #1.To disassemble any further i will have to pull the lcd panel from the front.

Are those the transformers in the upper left next to the white wires? The white wires run along the lcd panel from what i can see behind the cover. The only pins that read on them are the outside of the 3 on the wire side. They read 37.4 and 37.8 @ the 200 setting on my cheapo multimeter as labeled in my attached pics.

[tom66]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

I have the panel off which allows access to the boards seen in post #1.To disassemble any further i will have to pull the lcd panel from the front.

Are those the transformers in the upper left next to the white wires? The white wires run along the lcd panel from what i can see behind the cover. The only pins that read on them are the outside of the 3 on the wire side. They read 37.4 and 37.8 @ the 200 setting on my cheapo multimeter as labeled in my attached pics.

Unfortunately, neither of those is the inverter. On some TVs, rather annoyingly, it is buried under a shield attached to the panel. If you take a picture of your TV with the back off, I can help you in identifying where the inverter (probably) is.

For the transformers, you will want to set your meter to ohms (the omega symbol: Ω) on the 20k range.

[junktv]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

Here is all i see. White wires T at the top and run across the top and start to head down along the sides into the lcd panel. The little plate with the silver tape is about .25" high on the .75-1" lcd panel.
I did attempt to remove the tape and pull the panel but the tape was delaminating so i figured i'd leave it be in case someone smarter than me thought it should be there.

On the lower resolution 20k setting the transformers both read 0.04 then.

[tom66]

Re: Element FLX-3211B no picture

Here is all i see. White wires T at the top and run across the top and start to head down along the sides into the lcd panel. The little plate with the silver tape is about .25" high on the .75-1" lcd panel.
I did attempt to remove the tape and pull the panel but the tape was delaminating so i figured i'd leave it be in case someone smarter than me thought it should be there.

On the lower resolution 20k setting the transformers both read 0.04 then.

Ouch!

I've seen this design of TV before. I've got a very similar design in my shed. (A Bush TV.) I think it's a Proview design ; just another bulk import from China.

Let me guess - pulling the plastic case off is a nightmare? I couldn't get it off. Luckily my problem was in the power supply area, and that's in a "convenient" sliding tray. I don't think I've ever seen a design like this before (and that's not a complement to the designers.)

Speaking of bad design, the metal casing around the power supply and main board is a really bad idea, and I'm frankly not sure why they ever did that. All it does is cook the power supply and main board leading to a high failure rate.

Anyway, on my set you can just about see a board on the left hand side of the TV, through the casing; that's the inverter. Unfortunately, you're going to need to get the plastic casing off to get to it.

0.04 kohms is normal for the main switching transformers. 1kohm - 10kohm is what you expect for inverters.