Question about Power supply output capacitors

**POM_MJ** · 12-26-2009, 12:40 AM

Re: Question about Power supply output capacitors

correct typing
Super Flower SF-400P12
3.3V 2200/6.3V.10mm.TUL - L - 1000/10V.10mm.TUR
...
...

**PCBONEZ** · 12-26-2009, 02:01 AM

Re: Question about Power supply output capacitors

JPCE is the branding
TUx is the series but the x is a wild card.
Companies actual name is CEC International Holdings [out of Hong Kong and China].
http://www.ceccoils.com/CECWEB/products.aspx?lang=en
Unfortunately they aren't into publishing data sheets.

**shadow** · 12-26-2009, 06:02 AM

Re: Question about Power supply output capacitors

Originally posted by PCBONEZ

Unfortunately they aren't into publishing data sheets.

Too shit to even publish exaggerated specs?

**kc8adu** · 12-26-2009, 07:33 AM

Re: Question about Power supply output capacitors

looks like you have to log in.
so where is that b.s flag smiley?

Attached Files

**i4004** · 12-26-2009, 11:20 AM

Re: Question about Power supply output capacitors

>If anyone has those caps and has ESR meter, please measure their ESR for me.

why don't you measure it?
that psu(and those caps) is probably still fine, as it has good cooling.

>I was saw on my PSUs, they used JPCE-TUL (brown sleeve) in place before Pi filter, and JPCE-TUR (black sleeve) after Pi filter.

how did you establish that, with a scope?
what load did you use to measure it?

>2200/16V.10mm.TUR -> 1500/16V.Panasonic.FL WORST
2200/16V.10mm.TUR -> 1500/16V.Chemicon.LXZ FAIR)

what was esr of those, compared to originals?
i presume chemi has higher esr than pana?

-------
>Too shit to even publish exaggerated specs?

meh, those caps are working just fine in my enermax, and it's 8 years old...
it's not really fuhyu-quality, you know....

**POM_MJ** · 12-26-2009, 01:15 PM

Re: Question about Power supply output capacitors

>why don't you measure it?
>that psu(and those caps) is probably still fine, as it has good cooling.

Sorry, I have no ESR meter and could not find it in my country.

>how did you establish that, with a scope?
>what load did you use to measure it?
>2200/16V.10mm.TUR -> 1500/16V.Panasonic.FL WORST
>2200/16V.10mm.TUR -> 1500/16V.Chemicon.LXZ FAIR)

I simply measure voltage by meter while supply to...
DFI lanparty NF4-D, Athlon64 3000+, 2x512MB DDR1, 80GB HDD

measure when system idle and when load more 12V rail by 6.6ohm (~1.8A, ~22W)
ENERMAX EG365P-VE
2200/16V.10mm.TUR === idle:~12.20V, load more 22W:~12.19V
1500/16V.Panasonic.FL (10x20mm, ESR 0.013) WORST === idle:~12.20V, load more 22W:~11.98V
1500/16V.Chemicon.LXZ (10x30mm. ESR 0.037) FAIR === idle:~12.20V, load more 22W:~12.18V

>what was esr of those, compared to originals?
>i presume chemi has higher esr than pana?

Yes, Chemicon LXZ is 0.037, Pana FL/FJ is 0.013, I don't know original cap's ESR.

**i4004** · 12-26-2009, 01:36 PM

Re: Question about Power supply output capacitors

you load the 12v with extra resistor?

is multimeter "stiff" on reading it gave, or is it dancing around, like showing 12.19, then 12.15, then 12.10 etc.?

(reead this
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...pple#post89430
and momaka's post above it)

-------
it seems to me that psu is within specs, so why recap it?

i have that psu, but i'm afraid i don't have digital esr meter, only analog...
so i can't give you precise numbers...

but you know, my curiosity really gets me, and perhaps i'll order esr micro, because i really am curious about (for example) precise esr differences of gp vs. low esr types etc.
also, what is the precise esr of this 2 gp cap contraption etc.

eyeballing with my analog meter i see it's pretty near to chemicon lxz...but is it 0.03, 0.05 or 0.07 i can't really say...

**POM_MJ** · 12-26-2009, 02:40 PM

Re: Question about Power supply output capacitors

>you load the 12v with extra resistor?
>is multimeter "stiff" on reading it gave, or is it dancing around, like showing 12.19, >then 12.15, then 12.10 etc.?

yes, 6.6ohm plug into MOLEX BLACK-YELLOW with a switch ON/OFF.
meter show stiff voltage measured.

>it seems to me that psu is within specs, so why recap it?
My point is...
1. just experiment to understand.
why sometimes, after recaps the power supply output capacitors with
better quality/lower ESR caps could made filter ability worst than original caps.
2. many recommendation here grouped JPCE-TUx are badcaps.
I want to know their ESR to find better quality/same ESR for replacement.
3. how different, if recaps to lower ESR/nearly ESR/more ESR than original caps.

**i4004** · 12-26-2009, 03:06 PM

Re: Question about Power supply output capacitors

yes, i agree with you, you should experiment.
but you should also get esr meter(i also don't have ti here but esr micro can b epayed via paypal)....and so should i.
<smile>

if i buy esr micro(before you), i'll tell you values for these caps.
(esr micro will not really be of much use to me(as analog is enough for most things), it's just the curiosity...)

i think i'll ask oklahoma wolf to see if there's relation between digital multmeter readout and ripple he sees on scope...

**Oklahoma Wolf** · 12-26-2009, 05:07 PM

Re: Question about Power supply output capacitors

Originally posted by i4004

if there's relation between digital multmeter readout and ripple he sees on scope...

No. Not unless ripple is way off the scale and many times ATX spec. The waveform needs to be at a low enough frequency for the meter to catch it too.

**i4004** · 12-26-2009, 07:34 PM

Re: Question about Power supply output capacitors

i think you're right...and we were wrong.
and testing is not that hard either, just remove the lytic from the secondary(for example these cheap hdd external case psus) and measure with dmm on dc range.
now compare what you see on the scope with dmm reading....dmm is not really swinging heavilly with those pulses...infact it's not swinging at all.

what(probably) happens is that these cheap dmms just have too big "sampling window" and probably many points of the waveform are included in just one reading...

ergo no dice.

why bother, i hear you ask in PM on jg forum: curiosity.

---------------------
in the pom's case voltage drop is probably because of that resistor and/or regulation issues with those low esr caps(ie "voltage drop" doesn't equal "ripple"), and also, i think 22w extra is too lil to change much when it comes to ripple....ripple shows on loads that near the max power psu can give...esp. on better psus...

so pom, you actually need the scope., the esr meter, and much, MUCH bigger load...
huh...tough....
makes me wanna connect that 12 rail to car's starter...
hehe....that would probably kick it into OC protection...

**shadow** · 12-26-2009, 07:37 PM

Re: Question about Power supply output capacitors

Originally posted by i4004

>Too shit to even publish exaggerated specs?

meh, those caps are working just fine in my enermax, and it's 8 years old...
it's not really fuhyu-quality, you know....

Fair enough, I just like having datasheets so I can compare products and find out various important specs. However apparently with many of the bad caps, the specs are exaggerated in the datasheet anyway. This makes the datasheet sort of pointless I guess.

**i4004** · 12-26-2009, 07:50 PM

Re: Question about Power supply output capacitors

> However apparently with many of the bad caps, the specs are exaggerated in the datasheet anyway. This makes the datasheet sort of pointless I guess.

yeap!

**POM_MJ** · 12-26-2009, 08:36 PM

Re: Question about Power supply output capacitors

>>i think 22w extra is too lil to change much when it comes to ripple....ripple shows on loads that near the max power psu can give...esp. on better psus...

>>so pom, you actually need the scope., the esr meter, and much, MUCH bigger load...
>>huh...tough....
>>makes me wanna connect that 12 rail to car's starter...
>>hehe....that would probably kick it into OC protection...

I can get scope from my office, ESR meter? hard to get it (I'll build an analog one)
but I think scope is not necessary, because I can see different of voltage regulations by DMM for each cap I put into, I think that's enough to tell satisfaction of those caps for the position.

>>Fair enough, I just like having datasheets so I can compare products and find out various important specs. However apparently with many of the bad caps, the specs are exaggerated in the datasheet anyway. This makes the datasheet sort of pointless I guess.

I agreed.

Question about Power supply output capacitors

Question about Power supply output capacitors

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