Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

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  • etnietering
    Badcaps Veteran
    • Apr 2009
    • 379
    • USA

    #1

    Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

    So I was bored yesterday (and avoiding my homework) so I decided to come up with a circuit that would keep the PSU fan spinning after you power down the computer. The only way I could think of to do this off of the 12v was with a giant capacitor...and that wouldn't work so well....so I made one that runs off the +5vsb rail.

    Here is the schematic:


    The little "V+" things that look like umbrellas are all linked to the +5vsb, I used them to avoid cluttering it up.

    It uses two 555 timers, a 2N2222A transistor and a 2N3904 transistor. One change though from the schematic, for D1 and D2 I used 1N5819 schottky diodes, so there'd be less voltage loss. My EAGLE libraries don't have that part though. I tried to make many of the component values the same to minimize the number of different parts. R2 and C5 control the length of time the fan runs after you power down - with these values it runs between 2 and 2.5 minutes. I know there are probably better, more efficient ways to do this, but I used the parts I have on hand. I know that PSU fans are 12 volt, and some won't run on only 5 volts, but this runs then at 12 volts (minus the diode voltage drop) until the PSU turns off, and then the 5 volts kicks in. Withe the two fans I tested this on (one 80mm and one 120mm) the 5 was enough to keep them spinning.

    It uses the +5v rail to detect whether or not the power supply is on or not. The 3904 and IC2 are there to take this slowly falling signal (because of the capacitors) and make it a short instantaneous drop, so that it triggers IC1. The +12v connection is there to power the fan when the PSU is on. The diodes protect the other parts of the circuit from voltages that aren't supposed to be there.

    I used a 0.6ohm resistor to measure the current draw of the circuit. With the PSU on and the fan running off of 12v, the circuit uses about 10mA from the +5vsb. With the PSU off and the fan running off the +5vsb, it draws about 40-45mA, depending on the fan and stuff. With the PSU off and the fan off (after the 2 minutes) the current draw is about 8mA. So, you don't have to worry about it hogging all your stand by power if it's running.

    Right now it's running from a breadboard, but hopefully I'll be able to assemble it onto a PCB and install it into a power supply. I priced everything out on digikey - the total comes to $4.13, not including a circuit board. Then you'll have 10 resistors left over (minimum order quantity is 5).

    Here's a picture of it built on the breadboard. The LED is there so I don't have to sit there with my hand over the fan to see if it's on or not. It's not in the schematic.


    It took me 8 hours to get this working....mostly because I soldered a wire in bad to begin with, and I kept hooking the power up to the 555 timers backwards....but it's nice to have it working What does everybody think?
    Attached Files
  • momaka
    master hoarder
    • May 2008
    • 12175
    • Bulgaria

    #2
    Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

    Pretty interesting.

    I would have done it simpler, though (just because I don't have your knowledge of how to make a circuit like that ); basically I would run 2 diodes before the fan - one from 5vsb and one from 12v (the way you have D1 and D2 on your schematic). When PSU is off, fan gets 5v directly from 5vsb. To turn off the fan when PSU is off, add a switch before that diode - that way you can't turn it off when the PSU is on.

    But your circuit is more advanced so I'm pretty sure it's way better than what I suggested (and probably more fun to build too).

    By the way, I just started classes as well and don't feel like doing homework either . I've spent 3 years in college so far, yet if feels like I only learned a fraction compared to what I learned from these forums.
    Last edited by momaka; 09-04-2009, 10:40 PM.

    Comment

    • etnietering
      Badcaps Veteran
      • Apr 2009
      • 379
      • USA

      #3
      Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

      Yeah that would be way way way simpler, but part of the neatness of this one is that it's automatic. And yeah, even though it took 8 hours of me getting very frustrated, I learned a lot and now that it works I have a great feeling of satisfaction

      I'm just starting my 3rd year....and that was my very first homework assignment...hehe

      Also, if I wanted to build 10 of them the price comes down to $2.93 each, and for 100 of them the price becomes $1.62 each. Don't ya just love ordering in bulk?

      Comment

      • Toasty
        Badcaps Legend
        • Jul 2007
        • 4171

        #4
        Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

        Try a 556 instead of (2) 555's. One package and 2 less pins.
        veritas odium parit

        Comment

        • etnietering
          Badcaps Veteran
          • Apr 2009
          • 379
          • USA

          #5
          Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

          Yeah that would be easier, but like I said I was just using parts I had lying around...it's not worth a special order from digikey for a 50 cent part, when 2 25 cent parts work just fine

          Comment

          • etnietering
            Badcaps Veteran
            • Apr 2009
            • 379
            • USA

            #6
            Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

            A few small changes/revisions: Removed D1, this will give the fan ~0.3 more volts. Changed D2 to D1, and fixed the name of it to 1N5819. The diode was there to protect the circuit, but T1 does that all by itself. Also, removed R1, because this was limiting the current through T1, and by removing it, the fan gets ~0.2v more. Without this resistor T1 runs in saturation (I think, it's been a while), and so you get the maximum voltage to the fan.

            Also, I timed the circuit, and with my parts it runs for about 2 minutes 35 seconds. Because the fan is getting more voltage it draws more current, so now the current draw is about 60mA.

            Here's the new schematic:
            Attached Files
            Last edited by etnietering; 09-05-2009, 02:15 PM.

            Comment

            • etnietering
              Badcaps Veteran
              • Apr 2009
              • 379
              • USA

              #7
              Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

              Well...turns out I was wrong about the second diode...you actually do need it...
              felt the 2n2222 and I think I burned off all of the nerves in my finger...so I put it back in

              Comment

              • everell
                Badcaps Legend
                • Jan 2009
                • 1514
                • USA

                #8
                Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

                To detect whether the power supply is on or off, try using the PGO (Power good output) signal, or sometimes labeled FPO (fault power output). By using this signal you don't have to deal with the decay time on the +5 volt rail as the filter capacitor discharges. This way you might be able to eliminate that first 555 chip.
                Old proverb say.........If you shoot at nothing, you will hit nothing (George Henry 10-14-11)

                Comment

                • etnietering
                  Badcaps Veteran
                  • Apr 2009
                  • 379
                  • USA

                  #9
                  Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

                  Thanks for the tip Everell!
                  I was able to not only ditch the second 555 timer, but also the 3904, 2 resistors and 2 caps. The circuit is now about 2/3 the size it was before

                  Here's the updated schematic:
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                  • everell
                    Badcaps Legend
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 1514
                    • USA

                    #10
                    Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

                    Your schematic looks very pretty compared to my hand drawn ones. What program are you using?
                    Old proverb say.........If you shoot at nothing, you will hit nothing (George Henry 10-14-11)

                    Comment

                    • etnietering
                      Badcaps Veteran
                      • Apr 2009
                      • 379
                      • USA

                      #11
                      Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

                      EAGLE from www.cadsoft.de (the lite version is free)
                      It's what we used in class, and I really like it. You can also use it to design boards from your schematics. The interface takes a little time to get used to, but it's nice once you've figured it out

                      Comment

                      • etnietering
                        Badcaps Veteran
                        • Apr 2009
                        • 379
                        • USA

                        #12
                        Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

                        I noticed a mistake in the schematic - R1 is going into the wrong end of the capacitor. With it that way, the circuit does not work.

                        Here is the revised schematic:


                        Also, I measured the current again, and with the fan off the circuit draws about 4mA from the standby line.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                        • lucky13
                          Badcaps Veteran
                          • Aug 2007
                          • 412

                          #13
                          Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

                          Correct me if I am wrong, doesn't the 12v fan need about 7v to start? So, running off 5vsb would be too low and may not spin?

                          Comment

                          • momaka
                            master hoarder
                            • May 2008
                            • 12175
                            • Bulgaria

                            #14
                            Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

                            I've tested a few fans with 5v as well, and most seem to spin just fine.

                            Comment

                            • etnietering
                              Badcaps Veteran
                              • Apr 2009
                              • 379
                              • USA

                              #15
                              Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

                              Some may need more than 5 to start (my 120mm does), but if they're already running, the 5 is enough to keep them going

                              Comment

                              • BRANCA
                                New Member
                                • Oct 2006
                                • 1

                                #16
                                Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

                                question for etnietering-what is V+,at R1 end and T1 end,in your schematics?I see +5V,+12V,but what the hell is V+?

                                Comment

                                • etnietering
                                  Badcaps Veteran
                                  • Apr 2009
                                  • 379
                                  • USA

                                  #17
                                  Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

                                  That's just a shortcut for the +5vsb, to make the schematic less cluttered. Otherwise there'd be wires going all over the place from the +5vsb input. Hope this clears things up

                                  Comment

                                  • etnietering
                                    Badcaps Veteran
                                    • Apr 2009
                                    • 379
                                    • USA

                                    #18
                                    Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

                                    Well I have an improvement, a version 2 if you will I remembered that the first time I ordered stuff from ON I got 10 of the MC33063A buck/boost voltage regulator. So I figured I could use one to boost the +5vsb up to 12ish volts to run the fan at full blast for a couple minutes. Well I did - I attached the schematic. It's a little messy, I can clean it up if people want. I'm not sure of the inductance of L1, it's the boosting inductor. The one I have isn't labeled, and I got it in an assortment or inductors. I ordered an assortment of the color wheel type inductors, and I'll interchange those until I find which one works right. What do ya guys think?
                                    Attached Files

                                    Comment

                                    • etnietering
                                      Badcaps Veteran
                                      • Apr 2009
                                      • 379
                                      • USA

                                      #19
                                      Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

                                      OK well after almost 7 months, I finally have an update for this....

                                      I got the urge to build something electronic last weekend, and decided it would be a good project to build one of these on a circuit board and actually integrate it into a power supply. I chose to use the power supply in the free rackmount case that I got, that I'm going to turn into a NAS box (if anybody remembers whatever thread that was...). It's this 300W Antec:


                                      A couple weeks ago, I did almost a full recap on it. It was packed with Fuhjyyu, and I replaced them with ELNA on the primary side, and Panny FM, FC, and Nichicon HE on the secondary side. I also upgraded the input filter a bit (although it was excellent already), and including the power entry module in the case it's: 4 X caps, 6 Y caps, 3 dual coils and 1 coil on the hot. Here's an overall shot of the power supply after that much work was done:


                                      So then I took a prototyping board and build my circuit onto it. Here's all the pieces on the board, but not soldered yet:


                                      The circuit is pretty much the same as the last schematic I uploaded, with a few minor tweaks here and there. Here it is after I soldered everything to the board and screwed it into the heatsink:


                                      So I fire it up, and it seems to run, although I notice a smell of electronics getting very hot. I figured it was probably just dust burning off parts of the power supply or something....until the smoke started coming out. Turns out I cooked an inductor pretty well. That's what I get for buying inductors on ebay that didn't come with current ratings...oh well. Here's the toasted inductor:


                                      And here it is after I took it out of the board....not good!


                                      So I replace it with a different one, one that I hoped could handle the amount of current I needed. So I turn it back on, and there's no smoke this time! But, I notice that the amount of air the fan is moving is rather lame. So I get out my multimeter, and discover that the voltage booster, which is supposed to put out more than 12v, was only putting out 5.8v. Lame! After many hours of poking around with my multimeter, both while it was running and not, I said screw it and decided to start from scratch, because I couldn't find anything wrong. So for the second one, I built it on a breadboard first, to make sure it worked, then use the very same components on the circuit board. The layout on the board is pretty much the same, although I was able to get away with fewer jumper wires. I also added an LED to know if the boost circuit was working. The second one is on the left (without the ICs installed), and the original is on the right (with the inductor replaced). The only differences are: 0.2ohm current limiter instead of 0.1ohm (but on the breadboard it works with both), used dipped film caps (the red blobs) instead of boxed film caps (the yellow boxes), added an LED, used 22K and 2.2K for R2 and R1, instead of 20K and 1K + 1K, added a second 270K resistor to the 555 timing circuit, so the fan will stay on longer. Here they are side by side:


                                      Well I install the second board, fire it up, and it works! The booster is putting out almost 14v, which after all the losses gives the fan almost 12v. I have it set up so that while the computer is on, it's running off the fan controller in the power supply (minus a diode drop). Then when the computer shuts off, for 5 minutes it runs at the 12v from the booster. Then after that, it sits on the 5vsb (minus a diode drop) as long as the computer is plugged in. Running it off of the 5vsb all the time is probably overkill, but I'd rather be safe than sorry if I'm going to be trusting my data to this computer. Here's a picture of it in the power supply, and running (although you can't tell):


                                      So if anybody is interested, I can give lots more details about what I did, including the schematic, parts lists, etc. Total price, including the board, was about 10 dollars. Well, 10 dollars each...
                                      I'm quite happy that I got it working though. Maybe someday I'll have a real PCB fabbed for it
                                      Attached Files

                                      Comment

                                      • Rulycat
                                        Badcaps Veteran
                                        • Apr 2010
                                        • 724
                                        • United Kingdom

                                        #20
                                        Re: Keep the PSU fan spinning after you turn the computer off

                                        What's the point of running it when the computer's off? Forgive me if I don't understand.

                                        Comment

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