MS Industrial 400W PSU issues

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  • gamebox
    New Member
    • Oct 2014
    • 5
    • Serbia

    #1

    MS Industrial 400W PSU issues

    Hello all.

    I need some advice on "moody" MS Industrial "GOLD MS-400ATX P4" PSU. It is about 7 years old, bought second-hand so I don't know it's history, bottom intake (12cm fan), ratings and pictures below.

    I've tried it with my system (67W TDP Athlon64 with low consumption GPU (Radeon HD4350), 2x1 GB DDR400 ram, 80GB IDE hard drive and 3 mostly idle IDE optical units). It worked fine for about a day and then the computer started switching off by itself in irregular intervals (in use or even when booting - it behaves as if a power supply cord was pulled off). 12V rail sags to about 11.5V in use. Another PSU (KME 350W) runs that system fine 24/7 sagging to about 11.7V, but it has 16A on 12V rail instead of 14A of MS Industrial.

    In another system which presumably puts load on different rails (it's the older 66W TDP Pentium4 with AGP GeForce4 MX440, 2x512 MB DDR400 ram, 12GB IDE hard drive, idle CD-ROM unit) the PSU works well and mostly has no stability issues in use. But, the only exception is when the monitor (17" LG T710BH CRT unit) is switched on - the large starting current pulled by demagnetization coil causes a minor voltage sag on all nearby devices, and the computer (sort of) freezes then. It doesn't switch off and doesn't reboot; it remains on but HDD and CD-ROM activity LEDs light up constantly for a few seconds, the fans slow down for a short while (judging by the sound), and the system remains somewhat frozen (no video output/signal from that point on, no ethernet traffic etc.).

    No capacitors are obviously bad, swollen or leaked inside the PSU. Input ones are HEC 470u 200V, the output ones are JEE (2200u 16V (I presume for 12V rail), the others are a pair of 1000u 10V and a pair of 2200u 10V). No unusual sounds, smells or obvious overheating. One of HEC input capacitors seems somewhat different - not exactly swollen (it is flat on top) but not perfectly "flat" between the three ridges on top surface (it might be visible on photos) - though I've seen many caps looking like that and working just fine, so I came to a conclusion that it could be the metal-forming imperfection. The plug on the bottom of that cap is not forced out either, and there is no evidence of leaking below. It is the one with red marking on top.

    Thanks in advance for any kind of help.

    Pictures:
    http://postimg.org/image/4s139x6it/
    http://postimg.org/image/5iukdjqdr/
    http://postimg.org/image/m6eg2rvpx/
    http://postimg.org/image/mua7a2sod/
    Last edited by gamebox; 12-13-2014, 08:17 AM.
  • stj
    Great Sage 齊天大聖
    • Dec 2009
    • 31161
    • Albion

    #2
    Re: MS Industrial 400W PSU issues

    what's the 5v standby voltage first?
    and bad caps dont always leak or burst.

    Comment

    • gamebox
      New Member
      • Oct 2014
      • 5
      • Serbia

      #3
      Re: MS Industrial 400W PSU issues

      @stj

      Just tested it for a few minutes with Hardware monitor:
      3.3V : 3.22 to 3.33V
      5V : 4.30 to 4.35V
      12V : 12.03 to 12.22V
      5V VCCH : 1.13 to 5.67V

      Confirmed - during EVERY CRT monitor switch-on (demagnetization coil current surge) the system "freezes" and shuts off video signal, often even with the hard drive parking its heads and spinning down. Once the system even rebooted as a result of heavy HDD use, but that never happened so far (the system is in use for over a month).
      Last edited by gamebox; 12-13-2014, 09:17 AM.

      Comment

      • stj
        Great Sage 齊天大聖
        • Dec 2009
        • 31161
        • Albion

        #4
        Re: MS Industrial 400W PSU issues

        5v vcch ? if that's the standby then it's fucked!!!
        infact all the 5v is fucked......

        you need to look a lot closer at the caps starting with the 5v standby line.

        AND DONT CONNECT IT TO A COMPUTER AGAIN!!!

        Comment

        • gamebox
          New Member
          • Oct 2014
          • 5
          • Serbia

          #5
          Re: MS Industrial 400W PSU issues

          @stj Yes, it is probably the standby indicator. In my system powered by KME 350W 5VCCH holds steady at 5.03V.

          The 5V rail of that thing might be overloaded, and 12V remaining stable as it sees little or no load at all. The situation was quite different in my system - 12V sagged to 11.5V with that PSU.

          Do you (or anyone else) recognize the layout and components from the pictures - I guess it is some generic brand? Perhaps I could then read more about that model's flaws, failures and construction... No caps seem strange or bulged on low voltage side. The bigger brown ones on the lower-right side picture, whose values I listed, are probably for "regular" outputs (12V, 5V and 3.3V). Then, small black ones above them could be in the "standby" circuit. I'll obviously have to disassemble the unit again, taking the pcb off this time too... I guessed the input electrolytes were to blame, but obviously it isn't so...

          Comment

          • stj
            Great Sage 齊天大聖
            • Dec 2009
            • 31161
            • Albion

            #6
            Re: MS Industrial 400W PSU issues

            the 5v standby caps are probably the 2 to the right of the power wires.
            you need to wait for one of the pc psu guys - they will probably recognise the board.

            Comment

            • lti
              Badcaps Legend
              • May 2011
              • 2557
              • United States

              #7
              Re: MS Industrial 400W PSU issues

              You should check voltages with a multimeter, not software. Software voltage readings can be completely wrong, like saying that the voltage on the 12V rail is 2V. Since the other PSU gives more stable voltage readings in that program, I would say that this PSU does need repaired, but I don't think the computer would be running as well as it is if that software was accurate.
              Last edited by lti; 12-13-2014, 11:49 AM.

              Comment

              • goodpsusearch
                Badcaps Legend
                • Oct 2009
                • 2850
                • Greece

                #8
                Re: MS Industrial 400W PSU issues

                Bios voltage sensors are completely unreliable.

                Judging from the pics, it can do 250W max.
                Last edited by goodpsusearch; 12-14-2014, 08:14 AM.

                Comment

                • gamebox
                  New Member
                  • Oct 2014
                  • 5
                  • Serbia

                  #9
                  Re: MS Industrial 400W PSU issues

                  Standby voltage without load is 5.09V, measured with a multimeter. Sadly, I couldn't keep the PSU running while disconnected from the board - I just managed to switch it on by pulling PS_ON to ground, but after a split second it would stop running - I probably need to do something else there too, but I hope this measurement might prove useful.

                  @goodpsusearch It is a low power PSU, no doubt. Ampere ratings on 3.3 and 5 volt lines are about half of those of my KME 350W. God knows what the number 400 means on this one, when even the sticker says combined output on 3.3 and 5V is about 150 W. However, both of my computers are low power, so rating should not be critical. Perhaps though it's not quite enough for my (low consumption) Athlon64 system which draws heavily from 12V, though I would like a bottom-intake super-silent PSU for that system rather than the Pentium4 one which sees less use.
                  Last edited by gamebox; 12-14-2014, 10:01 AM.

                  Comment

                  • goodpsusearch
                    Badcaps Legend
                    • Oct 2009
                    • 2850
                    • Greece

                    #10
                    Re: MS Industrial 400W PSU issues

                    Attach a hard drive or an old CD/DVD-Rom and try again.

                    Comment

                    • stj
                      Great Sage 齊天大聖
                      • Dec 2009
                      • 31161
                      • Albion

                      #11
                      Re: MS Industrial 400W PSU issues

                      looking at the state of it,
                      i'd either do atotal (including all small caps) recap with panasonic FR & FK or bin it.

                      Comment

                      • goodpsusearch
                        Badcaps Legend
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 2850
                        • Greece

                        #12
                        Re: MS Industrial 400W PSU issues

                        It's not worth so expensive caps. I would recap it with Teapo, OST and Taicon from dead psus, lube the fan and make sure it keeps the psu cool enough to do its real watts without overheating and the caps not get cooked.

                        Comment

                        • stj
                          Great Sage 齊天大聖
                          • Dec 2009
                          • 31161
                          • Albion

                          #13
                          Re: MS Industrial 400W PSU issues

                          well i only buy FC,FR & FK
                          FK are very expensive it's true, but FR are very cheap for some reason, cheaper than ruby YXF.

                          Comment

                          • goodpsusearch
                            Badcaps Legend
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 2850
                            • Greece

                            #14
                            Re: MS Industrial 400W PSU issues

                            FR are cheaper than FK/FM/FC indeed. I use them in psus even though their esr is a bit too low for that application.

                            Comment

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