Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

[ben7]

Ok, I was gonna put these pics in the hall of shame, but after not finding anyone else with this PSU on the web, I have made a thread for it!

I got this PSU from an electrical engineer friend.

This thing has just made my jaw drop so far, it fell off my mouth!

Ok, here goes:
1. 'GL' and 'MK' brand caps
2. Two transistor 5vsb
3. Fake 'Y' caps
4. No input filtering
5. TL494 and LM339
6. Secondary output wire colors are mixed up
7. Tiny EI33 transformer
8. 5vsb transistor = FPJ5027
9. Main switchers = two TT2194
10. Fuse is not in socket, soldered in
11. Heatsinks are so-so
12. 12v: 1x1000uF ('GL', blown), STTH1002CT (Vrrm = 200v, If = 10A)
13. 5v: 1x2200uF, SBL3040PT (Vrrm = 40v, If = 30A)
14. 3.3v: 1x1000uF, MOSPEC S16C40C (Vrrm = 40v,
If = 16A)
15. Primary caps are 470uF 200v 85C 'MK' brand
16. 5vsb: 2x 470uF (fuhjyyu TN), 1x 470uf ('GL'), SB240 (Vrrm = 40v, If = 2A)
17. Two plugs for fans, both connected straight to 12v
18. A few missing PI filter chokes
19. no heatsink grease
20. soldering is so-so
21. mains rectifier: 4x1N5406 (Vrrm = 600v, If = 3A)

I was told that this thing was bought new for around $7. I was also informed that it was load tested at only 100w for a few minutes, when the 12v capacitor blew up.

Unfortunately I don't have the case for this, but I am assuming it was some no-name brand.

The board just says the model is 'CS-180, REV:A3'.

I'm not sure if I want to plug this thing in
I might do it with a ballast bulb though, in case something blows!

POS

-Ben

[tom66]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

Plug it in but remember to film it -- we want to see fireworks if there are any...

[TELVM]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

Excuse the newbie question, how do you know the Y-caps are fake?

[Pentium4]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

It's like they didn't even try winding that coil on the secondary. GL is Gold Link. They suck....Wow, that thing is dangerous, don't plug it in!!!!! It probably will blow up and spew radiation

Excuse the newbie question, how do you know the Y-caps are fake?

Certified Y caps are blue, so orange ones like these haven't been certified and they most likely don't do anything at all other than just sit there

[TELVM]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

Certified Y caps are blue, so orange ones like these haven't been certified and they most likely don't do anything at all other than just sit there

Thanks! Now I know what to do with a couple yellowish-orange 'Y-caps' I got here around ...

[ben7]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

Thanks! Now I know what to do with a couple yellowish-orange 'Y-caps' I got here around ...

Wait, don't get rid of them.

Not all these caps are garbage; in this case they used regular ceramic capacitors (which fail short circuit), instead of 'Y' type capacitors, which fail open circuit.

They are regular ceramic capacitors, and they should be used in other applications where the effects of it going short circuit are not that hazardous to humans.

-Ben

[tom66]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

Certified Y caps are blue, so orange ones like these haven't been certified and they most likely don't do anything at all other than just sit there

This isn't necessarily true; for example, I have seen brown and orange coloured Y caps in good quality equipment, so I'm pretty sure they're not fake. The industry standard is blue, but the number one indication is that they're so small -- a good Y-cap won't short when the breakdown voltage is hit, whereas those could quite easily fail short circuit.

[ben7]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

This isn't necessarily true; for example, I have seen brown and orange coloured Y caps in good quality equipment, so I'm pretty sure they're not fake. The industry standard is blue, but the number one indication is that they're so small -- a good Y-cap has a breakdown voltage of about 1kV; whereas those would struggle with 100V on a good day, so they risk an electric shock hazard.

They are not real Y caps, I am sure of it. They are just plain old ceramic capacitors.

[tom66]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

Yes, that's my point. They are far too small to be y-caps. They are simply ceramic caps and boy do ceramic caps love to fail short.

[TELVM]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

Got similar **** in my PSU, marked '222Z. 1KV' .

[lti]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

Does it have locations for a second cap and an inductor on each output to make a full pi filter?

Based on the model number, that is probably a 180W power supply.

[c_hegge]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

Probably, so at least it's honestly rated. I can't conclusively determine the OEM, but I'm kinda thinking it's Casing Macron.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

Probably, so at least it's honestly rated. I can't conclusively determine the OEM, but I'm kinda thinking it's Casing Macron.

Me too.

[ben7]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

Does it have locations for a second cap and an inductor on each output to make a full pi filter?

Based on the model number, that is probably a 180W power supply.

Only has room for another cap on the 5v rail.

Yes, I am also thinking it is rated for 180 watts

[momaka]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

Other than the very crappy output stage (only 1 cap per rail), this PSU isn't all that bad. I guess if you had equipment that didn't care much about output ripple, then this PSU would be fine for that. But given the lack of space for extra cap and PI inductor on each rail, I can guarantee you this thing will have very VERY noisy outputs. Otherwise, the rest of the components don't look that bad at all. I think I would trust this PSU to do 180W safely (granted the output noise will likely be sky-high).

Certified Y caps are blue

As tom66 said - not always. The key to know whether the "Y" caps in your PSU really are Y caps is to look for safety logos and approvals on them (such as UL, CSA, CE, TUV, NEMKO, DEMKO, SEMKO, FIMKO, etc.) and of course their size (Y caps are usually at least slightly bigger than equivalent ceramic caps of the same capacitance and voltage rating).

In any case, "fake Y caps" aren't really fake - they are just regular ceramic caps used in place where Y caps are supposed to be used. In terms of functionality, the ceramic caps are doing exactly the same thing as the Y caps. The only difference is the failure mode - in case of a failure, the regular ceramic caps *may* short out, whereas the Y caps will *always* (or almost always) fail open.

I can't conclusively determine the OEM, but I'm kinda thinking it's Casing Macron.

The PCB layout and PCB color do kind of look like Casing Macron. I would be surprised if Casing Macron made such a crappy PSU, though.

[c_hegge]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

^
Macron can be a bit like Solytech. I've seen them make some half decent stuff, but I've also seen them make some horrible stuff.

[ben7]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

Here is the drawing of the 5vsb circuit.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

Certified Y caps are blue, so orange ones like these haven't been certified and they most likely don't do anything at all other than just sit there

Those are 2200pF, 1KV DC caps. From a filtering POV, they probably do what they are supposed to do. BUT caps used for that function should be rated for AC voltage (250VAC and 275VAC being most common) AND be safety agency approved. Proper Y-caps tend to have more safety agency markings than brand, value & voltage markings. So these cheapos aren't as safe for lightening or motor turn-on surges as agency-rated parts; they're just CHEAP.

Y-caps are not any particular color or dielectric. You can get impregnated paper, polyester film and polypropylene film Y-caps from companies like Evox-Rifa, Wima or Roederstein (a division of Vishay), and maybe Epcos (parts formerly made by Siemens), in boxes of several different colors. You can also get ceramic disc Y-caps from Cera-Mite (also Vishay), TDK and Murata (and probably other vendors), in orange, yellow and blue. Ceramic disc Y-caps tend to be less expensive and smaller than film or paper dielectric parts (which have better temperature stability, IIRC), and it sounds like Murata is used a lot (something I noticed in my time at Delta Products).

Simple bottom line for Y-caps, look for the agency marks and look for an AC voltage rating (e.g. "250VAC" or "250~").

[ben7]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

Those are 2200pF, 1KV DC caps.From a filtering POV, they probably do what they are supposed to do. BUT caps used for that function should be rated for AC voltage (250VAC and 275VAC being most common) AND be safety agency approved. Proper Y-caps tend to have more safety agency markings than brand, value & voltage markings. So these cheapos aren't as safe for lightening or motor turn-on surges as agency-rated parts; they're just CHEAP.

Y-caps are not any particular color or dielectric. You can get impregnated paper, polyester film and polypropylene film Y-caps from companies like Evox-Rifa, Wima or Roederstein (a division of Vishay), and maybe Epcos (parts formerly made by Siemens), in boxes of several different colors. You can also get ceramic disc Y-caps from Cera-Mite, TDK and Murata (and probably other vendors), in orange, yellow and blue. Ceramic disc Y-caps tend to be less expensive and smaller than film or paper dielectric parts (which have better temperature stability, IIRC), and it sounds like Murata is used a lot (something I noticed in my time at Delta Products).

Simple bottom line for Y-caps, look for the agency marks and look for an AC voltage rating (e.g. "250VAC" or "250~").

I think we already discussed about this

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Very bad POS 'CS-180' PSU!!!

OK, ben, here's the text of my post, highlighting information that had not been mentioned previously or that I think I expressed more clearly:

Those are 2200pF, 1KV DC caps. From a filtering POV, they probably do what they are supposed to do. BUT caps used for that function should be rated for AC voltage (250VAC and 275VAC being most common) AND be safety agency approved. Proper Y-caps tend to have more safety agency markings than brand, value & voltage markings. So these cheapos aren't as safe for lightening or motor turn-on surges as agency-rated parts; they're just CHEAP.

Y-caps are not any particular color or dielectric. You can get impregnated paper, polyester film and polypropylene film Y-caps from companies like Evox-Rifa, Wima or Roederstein (a division of Vishay), and maybe Epcos (parts formerly made by Siemens), in boxes of several different colors. You can also get ceramic disc Y-caps from Cera-Mite (also Vishay), TDK and Murata (and probably other vendors), in orange, yellow and blue. Ceramic disc Y-caps tend to be less expensive and smaller than film or paper dielectric parts (which have better temperature stability, IIRC), and it sounds like Murata is used a lot (something I noticed in my time at Delta Products).

Simple bottom line for Y-caps, look for the agency marks and look for an AC voltage rating (e.g. "250VAC" or "250~").

Why your snippy and partially factually incorrect was necessary and how it was helpful to this thread I'll leave for you to explain or not, ben. As for my post, I tried to contribute a little toward understanding the kinds of parts that may be used in the Y-cap function (e.g. the impregnated paper Rifa PME-271, which doesn't remotely resemble a disc ceramic, but has been commonly used in power supplies since at least the 1970s) and why certain types might be chosen for particular applications.