Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

[greenzilla]

I recently acquired a malfunctioning AOpen AX45-8X. My brother (halfway across the country) suggested that I check the capacitors on it. Sure enough, essentially all of the Lelon capacitors on the mobo were leaking all over the place.

I've never done this before, though. I thought it would be as easy as looking up a couple numbers and ordering the same capacitors... but I just spent the last four hours scratching my head over all the different specs ... it doesn't really help that there's six different types of capacitors that I want to replace.

Here's the Lelon capacitors that look broken:

Lelon RXA 105C 6.3v 1000uF | Dimensions (DxL, Leadspacing): 8x12, 3.5mm
Lelon RXA 105C 10v 1000uF | Dimensions (DxL, Leadspacing): 8x14, 3.5mm
Lelon RXA 105C 6.3v 1500uF | Dimensions (DxL, Leadspacing): 10x20, 5mm
Lelon RXA 105C 10v 2200uF | Dimensions (DxL, Leadspacing): 10x28, 5mm
Lelon RXA 105C 16v 1500uF | Dimensions (DxL, Leadspacing): 10x20, 5mm
Lelon RXA 105C 16v 2200uF | Dimensions (DxL, Leadspacing): 13x24, 5mm

Not too sure about the dimensions, I measured them by eye with a pretty crappy ruler. The size shouldn't really be a problem, though.

Here's some pics. I marked the tops of the capacitors I think need replacement with a blue sharpie.



Three 6.3v 1000uF, one 10v 2200uF and one 6.3v 1500uF. There was a trail of goop on the top left (I cleaned it up slightly to see if the circuit board appeared damaged) The bottom right one has gunk leaked out all over the top of it (you can't really see, the flash kinda whitewashed it out).




More around the memory and around the AGP slot. Three 6.3V 1000uF, two 10v 1000uF, and one 6.3v 1500uF




Some massive capacitors- both 16v (2200uF and 1000uF) The two fat capacitors seem like they might be ok (one is bulging slightly, the other looks fine), but I think i'm going to replace them both anyways


Can you guys help me out and suggest some capacitors that would be suitable to replace these? (and where I can get them...) Thanks in advance for the help!

[greenzilla]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

Just wondering if these will be OK

To replace the 6.3v and 10v 1000uF: Nichicon HE Series 10v 1000uF caps
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=493-1496-ND

For the 6.3v 1500uF: Nichicon HE Series 6.3v 1500uF
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=493-1470-ND

For 10v 2200uF: Nichicon HE Series 10V 2200uF
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=493-1501-ND

For 16v 1500uF: Nichicon HE Series 16v 1500uF
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=493-1529-ND

For 16v 2200uF: Nichicon HE Series 16v 2200uF
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=493-1532-ND

[Newbie2]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

Just wondering if these will be OK

To replace the 6.3v and 10v 1000uF: Nichicon HE Series 10v 1000uF caps
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=493-1496-ND

For the 6.3v 1500uF: Nichicon HE Series 6.3v 1500uF
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=493-1470-ND

For 10v 2200uF: Nichicon HE Series 10V 2200uF
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=493-1501-ND

For 16v 1500uF: Nichicon HE Series 16v 1500uF
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=493-1529-ND

For 16v 2200uF: Nichicon HE Series 16v 2200uF
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=493-1532-ND

That's fine, the Nichicon HE series capacitors are decent for any recapping project.

You'll also need a good ESD-safe soldering iron (at least 60W) to do the job, along with some 60/40 solder.

[greenzilla]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

Ok! Thanks! I just placed the order.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

No disrespect to Newbie2 but I would use something better than HE in CPU VRM area.

If sourcing from Digikey Panasonic FM would be the best choice if they will fit.
(Sometimes FM as bigger diameters. Looks like those Lelon are too so, no mater.)
The Rubycon Badcaps.net sells are rated a little better than FM but not available in all sizes and FM should be okay.

As so many have failed on that board it's safe to assume that whole batch of Lelon are bad and all should be replaced.

.

[greenzilla]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

No disrespect to Newbie2 but I would use something better than HE in CPU VRM area.

If sourcing from Digikey Panasonic FM would be the best choice if they will fit.
(Sometimes FM as bigger diameters. Looks like those Lelon are too so, no mater.)
The Rubycon Badcaps.net sells are rated a little better than FM but not available in all sizes and FM should be okay.

As so many have failed on that board it's safe to assume that whole batch of Lelon are bad and all should be replaced.

.

DOH! I already placed the order... well... I'm kinda eager to try this out. Do you think HE caps would really cause a problem? I figure since the big caps were the same Lelon series as the ones around the memory that HE should be OK for both, right?

The capacitors around the CPU socket are Nichicon and seem fine, so i don't plan on replacing those, but I'm planning on replacing all the Lelon caps, even though one of them looks completely ok.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

I would use better grades in VRM of socket 478.
16v of larger uF (over 330) are usually in VRM.
I see two 2200uF Lelon in VRM (input) in one of your photos.

Also see some by AGP slot but can't read 'em.
I would use at least Chemicon KZE or Rubycon ZL there but HE is probably okay.

Only way to know for sure is to look up specs of original caps but Lelon RXA is no longer produced and data sheet is gone from their site. (I checked for you.)

Some Nichicon HN and HM series dated form 2002 and 2004 had problems with a manufacturing error. Some people suspect 2001 and 2005 as well but I don't think so.
Only seen one complaint with 2001 code and two with 2005 codes.
Could have been bad PSU's on those.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...el&btnG=Search
Date code is in format [1 letter][2 digit year][2 digit week of year] on side of caps.

Sorry if I sound like I'm being short with you. Don't have much free time lately.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

HE around memory.
I would use better just to be safe because I don't know specs on what came out.
It's hard to say without knowing what old caps were.

Caps in parallel lowers ESR and raises Ripple so mfr#1 might use one higher grade cap and mfr#2 uses two lower grade cap for the same thing.

HE grade in VRM or by memory slots isn't typical since PC100/PC133 SDRAM days but there are always exceptions.
Still okay by PCI slots.


.

[Newbie2]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

I have used Nichicon HE caps in everything (CPU VRM, power supplies, everything) without a problem.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

You do that.
Meanwhile, I will continue to believe the people that design motherboards know what they are doing.
They wouldn't use HE there.

[kc8adu]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

fm are a much better choice.
but it still surprises me how well some boards still run with every cap in them blown to hell.
there might be more tolerance than we think.it may work just fine.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

Caps in VRM output are in parallel with small caps built into the processor that are intended for higher frequencies. When VRM caps have higher than recommended ESR more load is put on the caps in the CPU. May result in CPU caps running hotter than designed for.

Caps trying to handle more ripple than they are intended for (Ripple rated lower than 'stock' caps) will run at much higher internal temperatures. This will cause electrolyte to fail sooner among other things..

Either one means shorter life.
How much shorter depends on how far off you are from design specs.

I don't like recapping boards I've already done once so I use properly rated caps.

.

[greenzilla]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

Hmm... I see... Would it help if I just improved airflow over the area? I already recieved the capacitors and I don't want to wait for another shipment :\

The mobo doesn't have to last a really long time, I'm just hoping it works for about a year.

[yanz]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

I have used Nichicon HE caps in everything (CPU VRM, power supplies, everything) without a problem.

Same here. Even for p4 mobos.


It's not like those caps will explode because they're not exact replacement. If u can get better caps easily, do that. If what you have already are nicicon he, i bet they'll work.

Would it help if I just improved airflow over the area?

Better airflow will always help.

[Newbie2]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

If the motherboard doesn't have to last a long time, then any capacitor should be fine. In a few cases, some have successfully used general-purpose capacitors in the place of low-ESR capacitors on motherboards.

[dood]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

You do that.
Meanwhile, I will continue to believe the people that design motherboards know what they are doing.
They wouldn't use HE there.

Sorry ,I just found that comment extremely amusing. They wouldn't use HE in the VRM, but they put crap caps all over the board? Kind of backasswards, no?

[kc8adu]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

Sorry ,I just found that comment extremely amusing. They wouldn't use HE in the VRM, but they put crap caps all over the board? Kind of backasswards, no?

some mobo caps i have seen are so bad even gp parts are an upgrade.
i know what i would do if it were mine...wait till a order of the right parts come in.
unless its a real emergency where it has to run.
once had a huge surface grinder to diagnose. it had a p4 mobo with all the vrm caps popped.hn/hm strike again!
takes a lot of time to tear it down to remove the mobo and this issue was holding up a big job they were in danger of loosing(govt contract)
i tacked a few polys on the board across the mlcc nearest the cpu.
it ran fine the rest of the week till they could down it for proper repair.
the 2 fujitsu 820@2.5 seemed undamaged by this.there should have been 12!
would have been interesting to see how long it would have gone but murphys law being in full force means it would blow up during a critical operation and trash very expensive parts and raw material.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

If the motherboard doesn't have to last a long time, then any capacitor should be fine. In a few cases, some have successfully used general-purpose capacitors in the place of low-ESR capacitors on motherboards.

I'm not surprised you would use GP.
That's why you should not be handing out recommendations on projects which, when they fail, aren't your problem.
-
While your at it why don't you recommend an Echo Star Power supply.
Should be fine if "It doesn't have to last too long".
- And it's basically as good a recommendation as your last one.

Sorry ,I just found that comment extremely amusing. They wouldn't use HE in the VRM, but they put crap caps all over the board? Kind of backasswards, no?

I didn't say HE were craps. I said they're under rated for VRM and especially Vcore.
-
Why would you think something that's typical, common, and standard practice even on high end $200+ boards is backasswards? -- That being using caps with lower ESR and higher ripple in VRM than are used on the rest of the board. -- Typical, common, standard practice since, oh, about Pentium 2. -- A fine example is all these newer boards with solid poly in the Vcore or the whole VRM but no where else on the board. - The only time you don't see this split in grades is when the bulk of the board is using higher grades than necessary and in those cases the general caps would be higher grades than HE.

fm are a much better choice.
but it still surprises me how well some boards still run with every cap in them blown to hell.
there might be more tolerance than we think.it may work just fine.

You are right. FM is probably the minimum that should be used in Vcore on P4.
I don't remember ever seeing caps rated less than than FM in Vcore on a P4 even in el-cheapo brand boards.
-
I agree about tolerances too.
The problem is on any given board you don't know if the original caps are right on the edge of tolerance and, if on the edge, which edge? High or low?

.

[Newbie2]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

OMG PCBONEZ. Just "chill out" and stop stressing us out about 5 cent components!

I don't use general purpose capacitors on motherboards, I just said some people have used them successfully to replace the faulty low-ESR capacitors on their motherboards. I wouldn't think they would be used for the long term operation of the motherboard.

I do not recommend junk power supplies. But to answer your statement, would it be reasonable to spend a lot of money and put a $200 Antec power supply that lasts 15 years into an aging Pentium 4 2.0GHz computer only worth $150 that will only be used for the next 2 years and replaced? If there was an older Pentium III or Pentium 4 computer that had its original power supply go faulty, I would honestly put a $40 DEER power supply in it, if the owner is sure he will replace it in a short time and it is not used for any critical tasks important to the user that needs his computer to work without doubt. If he was going to keep it for longer or he needs it to work without any doubt for his critical tasks of whatever he does, I'd put a better quality power supply into it.

HE caps are fine for many purposes, they aren't the best for everything but they will do their job. Duh, the guy already ordered his HE caps, so why this argument?

For example, I used D44H11 NPN transistors in my two BenQ FP731 17" LCD monitors to replace the faulty Sanyo 2SC5707 NPN transistors that were preventing it from working properly. The D44H11 transistors weren't the best to replace the 2SC5707 transistors, but the D44H11 transistors are doing fine in my two BenQ FP731 17" LCD monitors. I also replaced the main 470uf 35V and 1000uf 16V capacitors in my monitors also, the original capacitors were Elite capacitors and I used Panasonic FC capacitors of the same size and values (voltage and capacitance) to replace them. The Panasonic FC capacitors could have been not the best choice, but they work.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Replacing AOpen AX45-8X caps, need some help

That's funny,,,
Previously you said you DO use GP caps on motherboards.

If the motherboard doesn't have to last a long time, then any capacitor should be fine. In a few cases, some have successfully used general-purpose capacitors in the place of low-ESR capacitors on motherboards.

Who's stressed out?
I'm just calling it like I see it.

HE is not adequate grade for Vcore on a P4.
Bad idea.

.