MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

[tmiha71]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

If you decide to experiment with board, one suggestion (what would I do if board is mine, and if I do not need money from sell)...

I would choose to pull out 4 to 6 yellow caps (FPCAP) behind (closest, and in the middle of group) to inductors of CPU-vrm out, and put something like Nichicon L8 820uF in dimensions 8x8 mm... (Only if it's single CPU-vrm... all yellow caps in parallel = single CPU-vrm)...

To do this successfully good soldering skill is needed, and if it does not work at first, would try again - pull (newly installed) caps out, and solder them again...

If problems are still present (after three or more repeats), would go one (or two) size up with capacitance...

Thanks for New Year, best wishes to You too...

If you decide to go experimental way, search through forum, there's some nice posts how to solder...

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

Sorry, i dont know how to test for this. I thought the photos may help.

If it was just the psu going into protection mode then why would I have to clear the bios before it can turn on again. Power cycling did not help.

It sounds like multiple symptoms, where the CMOS is also corrupted.

[Hadakajime]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

No anwswer ?

Sorry, i dont know how to test for this. I thought the photos may help.

If it was just the psu going into protection mode then why would I have to clear the bios before it can turn on again. Power cycling did not help.

Also i have replaced this board with a second hand AM3 board and will be selling my 940/AGP parts next month.

Thanks for the help. Happy new year.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

Your "hard crash" for board #2 sounds like a power cut, because of PSU going into protection mode or just a shitty PSU. Or a core overheat.

[tmiha71]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

Is this a single VRM for both CPU-s (all FPCAP in parallel) ?

No anwswer ?

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: MSI K8T Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

It shows up as blank or as unrecognisable chars in the BIOS device list (possible BIOS bug?)

Sounds like a bad ATA cable.

[Hadakajime]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

Forgot to mention that these readings are for board #1 only, which was pretty stable compared to board #2

[Hadakajime]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

Here is a reference list of the measured ESR ratings against each type of cap

Let me know what you think, especially if they seem incorrect - maybe I need to calibrate again and redo them.

16V 1000uf:

• 0.04 (Rubycon MBZ)

16v 330uf:

• 0.03
• 0.02
• 0.02

16v 100uf:

• 0.58
• 0.53
• 0.49
• 0.43
• 0.34
• 0.27
• 0.19
• 0.16
• 0.11
• 0.06

16v 47uf (surface mount):

• 0.15

16v 10uf (surface mount):

• 7.9
• 7.8
• 7.8
• 7.7
• 7.6
• 7.6
• 6.5
• 0.06 (calibration error?)

10v 470uf:

• 0.09
• 0.07

6.3v 1500uf:

• 0.04 (Rubycon)

6.3v 1000uf:

• 0.10 (FJZ)
• 0.09 (FJZ)
• 0.08 (FJZ)
• 0.07 (FJZ)
• 0.07 (FJZ)
• 0.06 (FJZ)
• 0.05 (FJZ)
• 0.05 (FJZ)
• 0.04 (FJZ)
• 0.04 (FJZ)
• 0.04 (FJZ)
• 0.03 (FJZ)
• 0.03 (FJZ)
• 0.03 (KZG)
• 0.03 (KZG)
• 0.02 (KZG)
• 0.02 (FJZ)
• 0.02 (FJZ)
• 0.01 (FJZ)

4v 820uf:

• 0.04
• 0.03
• 0.03
• 0.03
• 0.02
• 0.02
• 0.02
• 0.02
• 0.02
• 0.02
• 0.01
• 0.01
• 0.01
• 0.01
• 0.01

4v 560uf:

• 0.01 (OSCON)

[Hadakajime]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

Hi

I calibrated my ERSMicro4.0s and measured the caps all around the board.

Let me know what you think, especially if they seem incorrect - maybe I need to calibrate again and redo them.

Original PSD map of the board available here (23MB):
Download: "Capacitor_ratings.psd"

Here is a JPEG:





Here is the original photo:

[Hadakajime]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

Hi again

ESRMicro4.0 just arrived today, and I also bought a nice new multimeter. Haven't had a chance to make a trip to the computer store for a testing PSU, but at least I'll be able to do some tests on the caps now.

When I was testing parts a long time ago, I tried at least 5 different makes of RAM.

Also, I submitted a repair quote request a few weeks ago but I haven't heard back..

[momaka]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

And yes, KZG are defective, and so are KZE.

No, not quite.
Only KZG and KZJ are know to be problematic. KZE, on the other hand, are excellent!

That said, it may be worthwhile to change those KZG caps. However, I would suggest trying a few other things first...

#1: try some known good RAM from another computer and try like the bare minimum (i.e. try booting with only a single 256 MB or 512 MB module - though I don't think that would be possible with Windows 7... may need to try Windows XP on another hard drive). Also try down-clocking the RAM.

#2: try booting with only 1 CPU. If you still get the same problems, swap the CPU with the other one.

The problem may also be BGA-related with one or both of the CPU sockets, but I somehow doubt that's the case since you have 2 motherboards experiencing very similar problems.

I'd say, try suggestions #1 and 2 above, and if they don't resolve anything, then send the motherboard(s) for repair to change the those KZG caps.

[tmiha71]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

...hopefully, one of experienced guys in modding (I think it's called modding, when changing caps with very different types/specs ), will chime in...

[tmiha71]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

On this forum,I've seen, some info about changing Vrm-input caps (vaguely remembering PCBONE or K8CADU), hopefully, one of experienced guys in modding (I think it's called modding, when changing caps with very different types/specs )...

As for sending/not sending, probably best thing is to ask through business channel of Badcaps.net (what they do/what they will do with your mobo/what they promise/ how much it costs...)

Sorry for second post...

[tmiha71]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

Yeah, 18 Amps is enough, but CPU-vrm on this MOBO is POS, as on all mobo's which have more than ONE distinct group of capacitors for VRM-out. They draw more Amps than needed...

Long story short: on that mobo some caps are cooked, and for that CPU-vrm is to blame (probably in combination with not so good PSU, second hand mobo). Maybe, it's time to start changing poly caps :-)) (this, on mobo, are not so 'hi-tech' for this 190W consumer)...

Probably time for new system, some savings on electricity bill are in sight :-))...

Before deciding what to do, usual checks:
- +5Vstdby (as suggested before)
- +5V rail (any consumer there, and how much it draws, possibility of quick, and cheap, fix )...

Note:
650W PSU is very popular :-))... Don't know why... 30 Amps on +5V is still popular - don't know why... :-))

[Hadakajime]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

Sorry for late reply, I've been sick.

I check my parts invoice and the old aywun PSU was actually:
http://www.aywun.com/ProductDetails.asp?ID=101

Another symptom I forgot to mention is I get some screen text corruption when web browsing - regularly in gmail but sometimes in other tabs too.
It looks like the text suddenly get incorrect anti-aliasing or it looks like ClearType has been set very incorrectly. Highlighting the text fixes the problem but it can come back very quickly.
I would definitely consider sending the video card in to the workshop with the motherboard if that's appropriate.

I was reading about PSU rails here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/761202/si...rail-explained
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3990

Plus I found a review of the FSP here:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/F...CM_750W/2.html

With the power specification described in the review, shouldn't the FSP's 12v rails provide adequate amperage?

For quick reference:

FSP AU-750M Power Specs
12V1 18A
12V2 18A
12V3 18A
12V4 18A

Power Distribution
12V1 ATX, SATA, Peripheral
12V2 8 pin EPS, 4+4 pin EPS
12V3 PCIe1, PCIe2
12V4 PCIe3, PCIe4

[tmiha71]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

My original PSU was a cheap Aywun Megawatts 550W

this one (1)
http://www.aywun.com/ProductDetails.asp?ID=100

or this one (2)
http://www.aywun.com/ProductDetails.asp?ID=140

Two Opteron 290 @ 2.8GHz, each 95 W, gives 190W, what is 15,8 A, that's probably too much for FSP and for (1), if your PSU is (2) than focus should be on mobo...

Please confirm PSU model...

[Hadakajime]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

Killed the motherboard in what sense?
I ask because despite their problems, both boards can still boot into win7 and play games like counter strike global offence, or play movies, or handle tasks like simple photoshopping..

[ben7]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

Measure the 5v standby voltage on the original, cheapo PSU. It doesn't need to be plugged in to the motherboard. If it is over 5v, then I think it is safe to say that the PSU has killed the motherboard.

[Hadakajime]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

A little update, I've submitted an order for an ESR-micro v4.0
I figure it may help diagnose other problems in the future.
However, if there's any insight that helps determine it's more likely a cap problem before it arrives (probably a while!), then I won't be waiting for it and I'll just send it off to the workshop.

A dilemma I have with testing right now is I don't have a free PSU. (board #1 is not currently in use and is the better of the 2, I think, so I would rather have that one diagnosed/fixed first).
Believe me when I say it's an effort and a half swapping these boards or accessing the deployed PSU cables
It's definitely worthwhile for me having a testing PSU for things like this, so I may go buy a budget one tomorrow.

[Hadakajime]

Re: MSI Master2-FAR7 (MS9617) multiple problems

Uranium-235, I'd be very interested if you could compare your experiences of this board with mine.
Do you get any standby USB power?
When you disconnect the mains in standby, is there still enough charge to briefly spin up?
When changing BIOS settings like enabling SATA, does the system date ever get reset?
Can you run with more than 1GB RAM in each channel?
Have you ever had a crash where you have to clear the CMOS before it will power on at all? (Doesn't even display ethernet activity in standby, even after disconnecting mains, waiting then reconnecting)
Thanks

I have already replaced the CMOS battery with a new one, and it didn't solve any problems.
My original PSU was a cheap Aywun Megawatts 550W. Changing to the current FSP Aurum CM Gold 750W didn't solve any problems.
I have also tried with an HD 4670 1GB AGP video card but it still exhibited things like no standby power, etc. I didn't run with that very long and still managed to get a crash funnily.
I also have an old old AGP card that I use for testing. Same deal as with the 4670 minus the crash because I never boot into windows with it.
What I mean by not solving any problems is that there is not change from the list of symptoms in my original post.
I could try stripping it down again and doing some testing.


Here is a pic of the entire board:


IMG_1983