Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

[pfrcom]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

What uF, volts, can size were those LTEC LZP you removed?
Those were the ones with high ESR?
.

1000uf, 6.3v, 8 mm diameter, 12 mm height

As you can see in the pic, the Ltec are slightly smaller than the Sanyo

Underneath, the Ltec show what I regard as the "poor quality" bung with concentric circles like a target, whereas the Sanyo have the "good quality" bung with a moulded shape

good save!
now on to the poly mod.
btw one of our shop helpers has one of these in his recording studio pc and wont ever give it up.
it is also poly modded.
iirc i posted the recipe and was modding his board at the time.

I saw your recipe while I was trawling through originally, seeking inspiratation to fix it in the first place

I'm very much an amateur, takes me a ridiculous amount of time to do a recap, which was most of the incentive to find what I'd done wrong

Although, seeing those replacement FJs are now done with normal solder, ....

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

I asked because I found the LZP data sheet but 1000uF 6.3v shows as 8x16mm

LZP 1000uF 6.3v 8x16mm = 850mA / .086 ohm
Nearest to 8x12mm is 680uF 8x11.5mm at 660mA / .130 ohm

I was just curious if the .12 to .15 ohms you got was good or not.
Looks like it was in the ball park for a 8x11.5mm LZP but LZP have crap for specs anyway.
.

[Almighty1]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

Have a question, how many of each capacitor is there since I'm trying to order a capacitor kit which comes with 31-32 capacitors but from pictures, it seems like the board has 34?

[mariushm]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

Dude... don't revive 4 year old thread, don't you realize how silly that is?

Ask questions in new threads if you have to.

You probably didn't get all the capacitors because some capacitors don't have to be replaced... what you don't get in the package... they're in positions that aren't subject to stress so those capacitors extremely rarely (if ever) fail, so there's no point replacing them.

[Almighty1]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

Dude... don't revive 4 year old thread, don't you realize how silly that is?

Ask questions in new threads if you have to.

You probably didn't get all the capacitors because some capacitors don't have to be replaced... what you don't get in the package... they're in positions that aren't subject to stress so those capacitors extremely rarely (if ever) fail, so there's no point replacing them.

As a new user, it will not let me create new threads, that is why I have to find a related thread to reply to. I'm not asking if I didn't get all the capacitors, what I am saying is that my motherboard still works except it's been on 24x7 for the last 10-11 years and there is this burning smell which seems to be leaking capacitors but the system is still running and the only way to look at all the capacitors is to completely disassemble the system which is a pain in the you know where as it is mounted in a full tower case which the top of the case is touching the bottom of the desk so the only way to get the tower out is to use something to lift the table which I prefer to do in one shot as the desk is over 100lbs in weight in a cramped area. Capacitors have a life expectancy and I'm sure running them 24/7 for 10+ years will cause them to fail regardless. Besides, I rather just recap everything in one shot while I'm at it so need to figure out what other capacitors the kits don't include.

[Pentium4]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

I'd check your PSU too, that might have bad capacitors as well. You can pretty much guarantee the capacitors are bad, especially with a P4, they run hot.

Capacitors have a life expectancy and I'm sure running them 24/7 for 10+ years will cause them to fail regardless.

You're right and wrong. Yes they have a life expectancy, but I'd put money on the fact that quality caps would last 10+ years of 24/7 and still be perfectly in spec. In fact, I bet running them 24/7 (assuming you have adequate cooling) is better than power cycling them all the time.

[mockingbird]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

I think you're right, personally... Replace every last one of them. And get a new quality PSU too while you're at it.

[Almighty1]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

I'd check your PSU too, that might have bad capacitors as well. You can pretty much guarantee the capacitors are bad, especially with a P4, they run hot.


You're right and wrong. Yes they have a life expectancy, but I'd put money on the fact that quality caps would last 10+ years of 24/7 and still be perfectly in spec. In fact, I bet running them 24/7 (assuming you have adequate cooling) is better than power cycling them all the time.

The PSU seems to be okay as I did check it, it's a PC Power & Cooling Turbo Cool 450ATX that did go bad by powering off on it's own a few years ago and it did go through warranty, not sure if they gave me another one or they repaired the one I had. Since I moved in 2009, there is a lot of moisture at this house as things have gotten rusted and one of the Corsair memory modules just died for no reason and system would not even post until I cleaned the contacts of the memory modules using DeOxit and then one module died later on. I've replaced the CPU a few years ago because for whatever reason, Windows for downloading in browsers, it would not allow downloading more than one thing at a time as it would basically push the CPU to 100%. A year ago, the built in 1000BT Ethernet would report cable unplugged at 1000Mbps but works fine at 100Mbps, both the Cisco Switch and the cable is fine.

Doing the motherboard for me is way harder than doing the PSU as that one can be easily removed. I can tell that I have the 4 Chemicon KZE 16v 1500uF capacitors followed by the 7 OST capacitors. It seems I have a bunch of Rubycon 1000uF capacitors which has that K top but not sure what the smaller size capacitor is as the writing is on the other side being blocked by other things. It's more complicated in my situation because I have some of the ports that are on a bracket going out of the case slot so it wraps around the I/O cards. As for quality caps, didn't that era have the cap problems or are those only with caps above a certain rating since I keep seeing people say to change all caps that are 470uF and above. As far as cooling, I have about 3 80mm fans from the front bottom going in, one 80mm fan that blows at the memory but there is no opening on the case so it's just circulating the internal air. Then there is a 120mm fan blowing at the CPU which is on a Zalman CNP7000 Orb Heat Sink Fan. The exhaust is a 92mm fan and a 120mm fan. Ofcourse it's sitting under a desk so the air coming out is actually warm. Before moving here, the air coming out always seems to be a lot cooler.

[mockingbird]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

Definitely get rid of that junk PSU if you end up re-capping this board...

Why work on such an old platform? Scrap it and get something decent.

[Pentium4]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

Old P4's can still be good web browsing machines if they have enough RAM to work with. If I were you, I would recap the motherboard and the power supply.

[Almighty1]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

Hmmm, since when was PC Power & Cooling considered junk? The PSU was close to $500 if I remember correctly. I have another new Antec PSU that I know works but I have to figure out which moving box I placed it in as I still have 200+ stacked unopened boxes. Getting a PSU that will work seems to be hard as well, atleast according to this:
http://camie.dyndns.org/technical/ps...010-intel-478/

As for the old platform, the reason is I have a lot of stuff on the board itself like Adaptec SCSI adapters and such and replacing those can get expensive, not to mention that WinFax Pro runs only on Windows XP and not the newer versions of Windows so the system really is being used only for WinFax Pro, scanning and printing, other than that, it's not really doing much anyways other than running ISC Bind, acting as a DNS Server for my network. Otherwise, I would not even have that system anymore as I'm doing my other stuff on newer platforms anyways. Not to mention, I have the SoundBlaster Audigy 2ZS which has the external I/O box that won't work on newer motherboards.

So I'm just trying to see if certain problems are caused by the capacitors or not. What I noticed on this forum is for other motherboard models, someone always lists all the capacitors used but for this particular model even though there has been many recaps, it seems like the list seems to vary depending on the person posting even though one person did mention the 100uF capacitors but they never said how many were needed.

[Almighty1]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

Pentium4:

Recapping the PSU is easy as that can be taken out fast and put back in within minutes so I can always do that one later.

The machine used to be really fast, opening IE or even Chrome since 2009 is like a turtle as it will take 30 seconds for the program to start but it will take another 3+ minutes just to open up google.com as the start page. There is 4 gigs in this machine with 3 gigs useable.

The motherboard is the one that I'm trying to find out every capacitor it uses so I can order the capacitors before taking it out for recapping and putting it back in.

[mockingbird]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

You're right, it was premature of me to characterize PCP&C negatively seeing as how they did make some decent products. Still wouldn't hurt to have a look inside and check the condition.

As for the -5V on the P4C800-E, that's a good catch you made... Though it's unprecedented that an 875P board should need -5V. Consider the possibility that the new PSU they originally tested with was faulty.

[c_hegge]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

Those older Win-Tact built PC P&C Turbo-Cool units were bulletproof. They were basically server PSUs in a standard ATX size. They went downhill somewhat after OCZ bought them out, but there has NEVER EVER been such thing as a junk unit from PC P&C. Ever

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

another 3+ minutes just to open up google.com as the start page.

WTF! I doubt that even 28.8 K dialup with a PII 400 would take that long to open Google!

Sounds more like a problem with the ethernet controller or a bad cat.

And even Vista with only 512 MB of RAM isn't that bad, LOL.....

[momaka]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

Dude... don't revive 4 year old thread, don't you realize how silly that is?

Sorry mariushm, but I'll have to disagree with you here. Sure the thread is old and he may not get as many replies because of that, but his question was relevant nonetheless. Reviving old threads is far from stupid, and there are many popular threads on here that are 3+ years old now but still going.

The machine used to be really fast, opening IE or even Chrome since 2009 is like a turtle as it will take 30 seconds for the program to start but it will take another 3+ minutes just to open up google.com as the start page. There is 4 gigs in this machine with 3 gigs useable.

Sounds like you just have some OS maintenance/cleaning up to do. What Pentium 4 chip family are you using and what speed? (You can use CPU-Z to check that.)
Anything Northwoord or Prescott with HT should run decently as a web browser. If no HT, the PC should still be fairly snappy, except of websites with lots of Flash content.

I discourage using Chrome. Its auto-update feature is a resource hog, as is the browser itself. Firefox 24 is stable and well-supported. Uses a bit more RAM if not restarted often, but otherwise it is a good browser. I use a mix of Firefox 3.6, Firefox 24 portable, Opera 11, and IE6 with a custom hosts file.
Firefox 3.6 and Opera 11 are good for daily use since they start very quickly.
Firefox 24 (or newer if you want) for newer websites, since some will contain scripts that won't work on Opera 11 or Firefox 3.6
IE6 is not really good for anything anymore. I only use it for badcaps.net and yahoo mail.

Now back on topic...
as much as you may not want to do this, the best thing to do would really be to shut down your computer, open it, and see what it has and what it needs. That way, you won't miss anything for sure.

[Almighty1]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

I remember PC Power & Cooling were basically modified Seasonic power supplies, this was before OCZ bought them out. Who makes high-end Power Supplies these days anyways since the other companies used to have lower output than claimed which was what PCP&C was supposed to be better at. As for the computer opening up google, it's not the network connection that is the problem but rather for whatever reason, all the browsers seems non-responsive after 2009 or so which was the reason I went with chrome. The problem is not the OS as I have cleaned the OS and even tried a new install on a new hard drive just to see what happens and the same problem exists so it's something with the motherboard which I hope is the capacitors as the CPU and memory has already been changed. The CPU is a Pentium 4C-3.2Ghz which is a Northwood as it has hyperthreading which means I got the motherboard in June/July 2003 according to this post:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=1130263

I posted about the undervoltage of the vCore in post 1 in the referenced thread.

One thing I noticed is that the system when it was working fine was 29C idle and 38C full load but when the problems began, it was always 40C idle and 50C or higher full load and this is even after cleaning the Heatsink Fan and replacing the Arctic Silver .

My computer is actually shut down for the past 24 hours as the case is always opened except it's hard to see the writing on the smaller capacitors, not to mention what's the best way to make sure every capacitor is accounted for as it seems like it's pretty easy to miss some with so many capacitors on-board.

[momaka]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

Your computer may be just as fast and clean as before (all of mine are, too), but the internet does evolve. That "slowdown" is happening because websites continually use more and more Flash-heavy content. Also, Flash itself has become very inneficient and bloated, (especially after 2009), so websites now make your CPU work much harder than before. This, it turn, is what is causing those higher temperatures. I am certain of this because my daily-use computers are still mostly P3s and P4's and I've been carefully observing this trend for a while now. Just as an example, my daily-use 2.8 GHz Prescott -based PC could run YouTube in fullscreen 720p several years ago without a hitch. Now, I can't even run 480p - that's how badly Adobe Flash has "progressed".

If you are using Internet Explorer (especially IE6) or some equivalently old browser, this "slowdowns" will be even more pronounced. I am a firm believer that if something works, it shouldn't be changed. Many websites, however, aren't like that. So for the past 5 years, I have been forced to update my browser at least every now and then in order to keep up with websites and not hog all of my CPU power just for them. So I am sure that what you are experiencing is just browser issues.

[Almighty1]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

Actually, the problem is even without the browsers, the temperature is higher than it was before. You're right about flash since Macromedia flash was good but Adobe Flash even on a i7 is a resource hog.

[Almighty1]

Re: Asus P4C800-E Deluxe rejuvenation

Here are my results:

KZE 16v 1200uF x 4
OST 6.3v 1500uF x 7
Rubycon 6.3v 1000uF x 18
GSC 16v 100uF x 5

Are Nichicon HZ any good as I can get those pretty easily locally...