Broadband Filter ADSL Nation Capacitor Upgrade Values

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  • UHU
    Member
    • Sep 2016
    • 35
    • UK

    #1

    Broadband Filter ADSL Nation Capacitor Upgrade Values

    I use an "ADSL Nation XTE-2005" to separate my DSL/Broadband signals from my POTS Voice signals.

    I would like to replace the two capacitors on it that I suspect keep failing - the real issue being the frequency separation and filtering performance (ADSL connection speed) of the "XTE-2005" increasingly ebbs away long before you replace it when it finally dies (sudden audible noise on voice telephone calls).

    The Capacitor values are proving difficult for me to find a superior replacement for they are: -

    1. C4 1uF 100 Volt "NP" (Presumably Non-Polarized) -40+105°c

    2. C5 1.8uF 250 Volt "NP" (Presumably Non-Polarized) -40+105°c

    Here is a link showing the XTE-2005 design with other ADSL Filters and Splitters http://www.adslnation.com/support/filters.php

    Here are some close-up photographs showing the markings and values of the capacitors I am talking about
    Attached Files
    Last edited by UHU; 01-28-2017, 08:36 AM.
  • UHU
    Member
    • Sep 2016
    • 35
    • UK

    #2
    Re: Broadband Filter ADSL Nation Capacitor Upgrade Values

    Rest of the Photographs
    Attached Files

    Comment

    • srhofmann
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2016
      • 135
      • usa

      #3
      Re: Broadband Filter ADSL Nation Capacitor Upgrade Values

      What do you mean by superior? Have you tried Farnell? Don't forget that you can always go up in voltage rating and you can probably drop from a 105C cap down to 85C. Also, you may as well replace all the caps on the device since you're not sure that it's those two caps.

      Comment

      • UHU
        Member
        • Sep 2016
        • 35
        • UK

        #4
        Re: Broadband Filter ADSL Nation Capacitor Upgrade Values

        Originally posted by srhofmann
        What do you mean by superior? Have you tried Farnell? Don't forget that you can always go up in voltage rating and you can probably drop from a 105C cap down to 85C. Also, you may as well replace all the caps on the device since you're not sure that it's those two caps.
        Superior (in my opinion) would mean a capacitor from a well known manufacturer (who supply's the repair industry & not just the lowest possible price obsessed manufacturers) with a good reputation - the opposite from the unknown manufacturers name printed on the capacitors you can see in the photographs.

        Farnell? Not specialized enough.

        The problem is the original capacitors are marked as "Non-Polarized" (aka Bi-Polar) so you cannot put in a regular polarized capacitor - having checked again (unless I am using the wrong search terms) Farnell do not sell any Non-Polarized capacitors rated over 50Volts.

        Either way can probably combine orders for free shipping and buy from outside the UK if necessary so UK Farnell will not be a limiting factor.

        I will replace all the other Non-Electrolytic Capacitors (suggestions for superior replacements are welcome) if changing the two Non-Polarized Electrolytic Capacitors doesn't work - I value all ideas/inputs on replacing the rest of the capacitors.

        However I suspect the two electrolytics are failing by drying out or maybe (being from an unknown manufacturer) they never met the specifications printed on them in the first place!
        Last edited by UHU; 01-28-2017, 01:33 PM.

        Comment

        • diif
          Badcaps Legend
          • Feb 2014
          • 6978
          • England

          #5
          Re: Broadband Filter ADSL Nation Capacitor Upgrade Values

          Have you got any other sockets/extensions, if so, have you got microfilters on them ?

          Comment

          • UHU
            Member
            • Sep 2016
            • 35
            • UK

            #6
            Re: Broadband Filter ADSL Nation Capacitor Upgrade Values

            Originally posted by diif
            Have you got any other sockets/extensions, if so, have you got microfilters on them ?
            No - but I used to - let me explain.

            10 Years ago I put all the micro filters (included with the combined ADSL Modem router) on all the extensions it was OK.

            Then I discovered I got more speed by doing away with all the micro filters and instead using only a central splitter so there were no reflected signals bouncing around between extension wiring - it was a British Telecom one like this http://www.tandyonline.co.uk/nte-200...faceplate.html (there have been a couple of circuit revisions to that design to support ADSL2+[24Mbps]).

            However the BT ones only lasted 18 months and would then be kaput.

            When the ADSL Nation XTE2005 came out I bought it instead of yet another BT one and it gave me more speed again - the main difference seems to be that the BT splitter is an entirely passive design while the XTE one is an active filter with 2 Transistors and 5 Diodes - so while powered / active filters generally introduce noise onto the circuit they are filtering in my application it increases ADSL line synchronisation speed.

            But the XTE splitters keep fading away (in terms of decreasing speed) then conking out - but they are longer lived than the BT splitters - therefore my suspicion that the only 2 electrolytic capacitors in the XTE could be the weak link BUT the BT one has no electrolytic capacitors (take a look at my links) and still the BT one is almost a consumable item!

            How about a SDSL Splitter instead? https://www.amazon.co.uk/GENUINE-BT-.../dp/B00NMUXPOS

            Is the BT SDSL splitter active or passive?

            Will the BT SDSL splitter last longer that the BT ADSL splitters? I suspect both are made for BT by Pressac.

            This thread https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=59961 is related to all this.

            Cheapest way forward would be to fix one of the XTE splitters I have - with the possibility that the repair could improve the XTE design for more speed and lifespan.
            Last edited by UHU; 01-30-2017, 12:56 PM.

            Comment

            • UHU
              Member
              • Sep 2016
              • 35
              • UK

              #7
              Re: Broadband Filter ADSL Nation Capacitor Upgrade Values

              What was known as SDSL is now also known as VDSL and there is now an even newer design of central DSL splitter like this one https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/mk4b...dslsocket.html
              Attached Files

              Comment

              • UHU
                Member
                • Sep 2016
                • 35
                • UK

                #8
                Re: Broadband Filter ADSL Nation Capacitor Upgrade Values

                Very successful (and cheap) repair resulting in massive speed improvement for all internet connected devices on the computer network – read on for details.

                Think about it, there is no reason BT (the UK equivalent of “Ma Bell”) would want to commission its supplier Pressac to make an efficient (or durable) high-performance BT ADSL/SDSL/VDSL splitter/filter.

                Because (in terms of business) British Telecom traditionally makes money from charging for the use of its phone lines billed by the minute – so any kind of always on Data Pipe (like any variety of Broadband/ADSL) is a threat to its core business model – the only thing even worse for BT would be making every ADSL connection run efficiently at high speed – which explains the constant failures of BT/Pressac line-box splitters I encountered plus the DSL line speed was pretty low by comparison with the ADSL Nation splitter that I changed over to.

                Look at the low tolerance resistors in that BT VDSL line-box splitter photo (my post just above) - also the capacitors are tiny in terms of physical size – which is not generally a good sign for reliability – the capacitors are all non-electrolytic though.

                Anyway, finally got around to changing the capacitors in my ADSL Nation splitter - it is noted their “XF-1e Microfilter” http://www.adslnation.com/products/xf-1e.php uses all non-electrolytic capacitors while their line-box splitter and master socket filters both use the two electrolytic capacitors that I got rid of in my XTE-2005 line-box filter.

                Why is that? There are very good reasons for totally eliminating electrolytic capacitors completely in any product (XF-1e) BUT then leaving electrolytic capacitors doing the exact same job (while drying out and failing) in the other two products you supply makes no sense.

                First of all, the ADSL Nation soldering quality was absolutely awful in several places - worst of all were the four gold plated finger contacts that connect the splitter to the BT line-box test socket – also there was heavy flux build up across several different areas – all of which I fixed. The visible dry solder joints would create noise and RF interference on the ADSL/Phone line from their imperfect connection.

                Of the four Inductors L3 has four connections/pins – the rest have two – why?

                Are inductors all normally marked and installed according to polarity? The ones on this are.

                Then having removed the two electrolytic capacitors I had to figure out how to physically cram in their non-electrolytic replacements – it is possible! See picture – just trim the case to make space for the ring capacitor – once installed on the BT line-box it looks totally standard/stock.

                What a spectacular Broadband/ADSL2+ speed increase! Best ever – way better than the very first (2008) “XTE-2005” I bought.

                Very pleased with the result and even better this non-electrolytic capacitor chemistry cannot dry out and cause problems like dropping DSL speed or audio crackling.

                Comparing the original very first (2008) ADSL Nation “XTE-2005” I used with ones I bought later I am beginning to think that ADSL Nation are supplying a worse, cheaper (in terms of components used) design of splitter nowadays – the differences in components are: -

                1. Physically smaller “SPG” (spark gap?) component - Top left of PCB
                2. Worse soldering overall – terrible (visible Dry Joints) manual soldering on leaf contacts – significant leftover flux across connections everywhere
                3. Different 1.0uF capacitor supplier – in 2008 it was pale grey sleeved - newer one is black – I wonder which is better (or cheaper?)
                4. Different pair of Transistors – 2008 vintage was marked “2N, 2222, A338” newer ones are marked as “MPS, 2222A”
                5. Different markings on the four diodes – bottom right corner – lost patience by that point so didn't write them down!
                6. Different markings on the three Film capacitors (older markings first) C3 WAS marked “F152Je., 400MEF1” NOW marked “Z400, 152J” C2 cannot be read without de-soldering and the C1 WAS marked “F393Je., 400MEF1” NOW marked “Z400, 393J” – also the older 2008 capacitors were physically larger components – which could be a clue as to quality?

                Sometime I might just replace all five of the capacitors on the original 2008 splitter (with the different transistors etc.) and see if there is a further DSL performance / throughput gain to be had – also if it comes back to life as it was replaced because it was not working.

                To that end would an expert be able to look at the makings and tell me how to go about decoding: -

                C3 “F152JE.
                400MEF1” and

                C1 “F393Je.
                400MEF1”

                When I de-solder C2 will then be able to also figure it out from the other two.

                Would a Transistor specialist know what is the difference / which is better for this application (similar to an audio crossover for speakers) the older 2008 splitter used a pair of transistors marked: -

                2N
                2222
                A338


                OR the new transistors they are using which are marked: -

                MPS
                2222A


                Instead of having to tolerate high ADSL line speed BUT with lots of small pauses just replace a pair of dubious choice wet capacitors on the nowadays shoddily built ADSL Nation Splitter and increase overall throughput speed massively!

                A great improvement that you can utilize every single day on your (now) low latency / jitter internet connected computer network.
                Attached Files

                Comment

                • diif
                  Badcaps Legend
                  • Feb 2014
                  • 6978
                  • England

                  #9
                  Re: Broadband Filter ADSL Nation Capacitor Upgrade Values

                  Originally posted by UHU
                  Think about it, there is no reason BT (the UK equivalent of “Ma Bell”) would want to commission its supplier Pressac to make an efficient (or durable) high-performance BT ADSL/SDSL/VDSL splitter/filter.

                  Because (in terms of business) British Telecom traditionally makes money from charging for the use of its phone lines billed by the minute – so any kind of always on Data Pipe (like any variety of Broadband/ADSL) is a threat to its core business model – the only thing even worse for BT would be making every ADSL connection run efficiently at high speed – which explains the constant failures of BT/Pressac line-box splitters I encountered plus the DSL line speed was pretty low by comparison with the ADSL Nation splitter that I changed over to.
                  Traditionally it did, now only about 10% of their revenue comes from consumer phone lines and calls.
                  I fail to see how providing decent broadband is bad for business.

                  BT would want a filter that does the job and is cheap. Same as all the broadband providers that supply their own kit. They wouldn't want something knowingly poor. It leads to more support calls, engineer visits and users bad mouthing the service.
                  The main problem is that the BT phone system was never designed to carry broadband and they have had to design workarounds (filters) for it to work.

                  F152Je., 400MEF1 = 400v 1.5nF
                  F393Je., 400MEF1 = 400v 39nF
                  The J at the end is tolerance in this case it's 5%
                  Last edited by diif; 03-10-2017, 05:46 PM. Reason: Added capacitor values.

                  Comment

                  • budm
                    Badcaps Legend
                    • Feb 2010
                    • 40746
                    • USA

                    #10
                    Re: Broadband Filter ADSL Nation Capacitor Upgrade Values

                    2222 is just general purpose NPN Transistor made by many many companies, base number is just 2222.
                    https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...4e099ddf82.pdf
                    https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...5d63fe6c7c.pdf
                    https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...dd8e10c1ec.pdf
                    Caps:
                    http://www.csgnetwork.com/capcodeinfo.html
                    Last edited by budm; 03-10-2017, 08:28 PM.
                    Never stop learning
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                    Comment

                    • UHU
                      Member
                      • Sep 2016
                      • 35
                      • UK

                      #11
                      Re: Broadband Filter ADSL Nation Capacitor Upgrade Values

                      Originally posted by diif
                      Traditionally it did, now only about 10% of their revenue comes from consumer phone lines and calls.
                      That is most surprising - could you please provide the reference or source of your information about the 10% figure.

                      Originally posted by budm
                      Thank you for the information budm - I understand from that there is no real gain to be had from me meddling with different transistors in this application?
                      Last edited by UHU; 04-08-2017, 10:49 AM.

                      Comment

                      • diif
                        Badcaps Legend
                        • Feb 2014
                        • 6978
                        • England

                        #12
                        Re: Broadband Filter ADSL Nation Capacitor Upgrade Values

                        Originally posted by UHU
                        That is most surprising - could you please provide the reference or source of your information about the 10% figure.
                        It's official BT literature. Not hard to find on their site.

                        Comment

                        • LulaNord
                          New Member
                          • Jun 2017
                          • 1
                          • USA

                          #13
                          Re: Broadband Filter ADSL Nation Capacitor Upgrade Values

                          Hi...i am a new user here. I want to know have you tried Farnell? You can always go up in voltage rating and you can probably drop from a 105C cap down to 85C. You can replace all the caps on the device since you're not sure that it's those two caps.

                          Comment

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