Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

[jason123]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

sorry for not being clear. The waves that you posted were for pins 75,76 which are the outputs of the IC400. They indicate that indeed the wave form coming in from the saccd input is making it "inside" ic400 and are being switched / connected to an output area... in this case, out towards the DSP processing boards.

IF those are processed ok, potentially they should come back in some form on pins 63,64. I don't know what those signals are like... digital (likely) or otherwise... but if they have issue, then potentially your problem is with the processing board and not with IC400.... remembering what I mentioned earlier about "straight thru"... depending on design / implementation, I do believe some designs still digitize a signal but don't do anything else (process frequencies / surround fields etc.

Anyway, it was some more checks as I usually try to exhaust as many alternatives before trying "major surgery" especially when dealing with meg pin IC's.

Thank you... i understand now. I will try to tap into those in the morning

[CapLeaker]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

I attempted to upload! Max video aize allowed is too small for all conversion formats . All uploads resulted in failures. I will keep trying

Maybe do some pics instead? It will suffice…
It's just a pain with Dropbox, I think even a YouTube clip would be better, if it really needs a video. I think that would make everyone happy, besides ending up in a dead link issue at some point.

[budwich]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

I've looked at pin 75 and 76.. they're labeled ADCRout, ADCLout... I know the sine waves are not "digital" output bad assumption on my part.. But I'm referring to pin 75 and 76.

Is there a conclusive test to figure out if it's processing? from reading your reasoning to looing at 75 and 76 you wanted to see what goes out to being processed is good. and it seems to be good (at least no jitter in amplitude or the Pin14 funny business) but you still think it's the processing that's bad?? trying to understand where processing / grounding / connection suspicions are coming from. Not to sound ungrateful but each of these tests to add wires, tap into resistors and pins requires disassembly and full assembly of the system and I think I'm getting close to using up max insertion rating on most connectors.

If there is something that you'd like me to do I'm happy to continue - but I'm not seeing why you think it's anything other than IC400 based on all the tests and findings

sorry for not being clear. The waves that you posted were for pins 75,76 which are the outputs of the IC400. They indicate that indeed the wave form coming in from the saccd input is making it "inside" ic400 and are being switched / connected to an output area... in this case, out towards the DSP processing boards.

IF those are processed ok, potentially they should come back in some form on pins 63,64. I don't know what those signals are like... digital (likely) or otherwise... but if they have issue, then potentially your problem is with the processing board and not with IC400.... remembering what I mentioned earlier about "straight thru"... depending on design / implementation, I do believe some designs still digitize a signal but don't do anything else (process frequencies / surround fields etc.

Anyway, it was some more checks as I usually try to exhaust as many alternatives before trying "major surgery" especially when dealing with meg pin IC's.

[jason123]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

would you please use the attachment feature (look for the paper clip on the very top). I hate having to use dropbox on my IPad, plus if not attached properly all the links you posted will be down after some point and the next one can't see them anymore.

I attempted to upload! Max video aize allowed is too small for all conversion formats . All uploads resulted in failures. I will keep trying

[Per Hansson]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

CapLeaker: As is the videos are too big to upload, they can be converted in VLC to be smaller.
I did try and after conversion they are ok, but it would waste allot of server storage space if videos in such sizes where uploaded in many posts.
I don't disagree with your point at all, just trying to show the other side of the coin...

[CapLeaker]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

Ok, here is the scope capture video of the 75 (Channel 3) and 76 (channel 4) pins. Tapped into the C546 / C547 caps vs. actual pins - just for clarity.

DAC outputs seem good ? ? just sine wave, not volume controlled, probably as expected and no Jitter as you see on Pin 14 (Channel 2 of the scope) as volume adjusts up and down.

Anything else is needed to make a determination of what part of the circuit is bad?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7u8kdole73...00926.mp4?dl=0

would you please use the attachment feature (look for the paper clip on the very top). I hate having to use dropbox on my IPad, plus if not attached properly all the links you posted will be down after some point and the next one can't see them anymore.

[jason123]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

I am still thinking that your problem is associated with processing as opposed to the IC400. I was trying eliminate as many areas as possible.

Quote: "DAC outputs seem good ? ? just sine wave, not volume controlled, probably as expected and no Jitter as you see on Pin 14 (Channel 2 of the scope) as volume adjusts up and down. " You have looked at the DAC outputs?? The linked video isn't of outputs. Just a question to confirm things.

I've looked at pin 75 and 76.. they're labeled ADCRout, ADCLout... I know the sine waves are not "digital" output bad assumption on my part.. But I'm referring to pin 75 and 76.

Is there a conclusive test to figure out if it's processing? from reading your reasoning to looing at 75 and 76 you wanted to see what goes out to being processed is good. and it seems to be good (at least no jitter in amplitude or the Pin14 funny business) but you still think it's the processing that's bad?? trying to understand where processing / grounding / connection suspicions are coming from. Not to sound ungrateful but each of these tests to add wires, tap into resistors and pins requires disassembly and full assembly of the system and I think I'm getting close to using up max insertion rating on most connectors.

If there is something that you'd like me to do I'm happy to continue - but I'm not seeing why you think it's anything other than IC400 based on all the tests and findings

[budwich]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

I am still thinking that your problem is associated with processing as opposed to the IC400. I was trying eliminate as many areas as possible.

Quote: "DAC outputs seem good ? ? just sine wave, not volume controlled, probably as expected and no Jitter as you see on Pin 14 (Channel 2 of the scope) as volume adjusts up and down. " You have looked at the DAC outputs?? The linked video isn't of outputs. Just a question to confirm things.

[jason123]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

.... As suggested, check the video RL record channel output to see what's there ....

Not sure I'm clear on the ask here.

I think I've exhausted the resistance measurement and visual inspection - if something is wrong, I'm just not seeing it.

As to the IC400... BD3470KS2... Any idea if other replacement are out there? can't seem to find it. I see BD3471KS2 and seems pin compatible. .. but just wondering if anyone has had any experience with these.

[budwich]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

OK... I think that indicates that the input of your FLR is good and making it thru some portion of IC400. The 75/76 are fed to digital processing and then returned to IC400 for switching to outputs as necessary. That appears to indicate possibly an issue with ic400 on the FL channel output only. As suggested, check the video RL record channel output to see what's there.

[jason123]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

Ok, here is the scope capture video of the 75 (Channel 3) and 76 (channel 4) pins. Tapped into the C546 / C547 caps vs. actual pins - just for clarity.

DAC outputs seem good ? ? just sine wave, not volume controlled, probably as expected and no Jitter as you see on Pin 14 (Channel 2 of the scope) as volume adjusts up and down.

Anything else is needed to make a determination of what part of the circuit is bad?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7u8kdole73...00926.mp4?dl=0

[budwich]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

I didn't see the "vol" points... so you are probably right about that. To me, it is somewhat "different" for a selector to have volume control / gain in it. Perhaps, its just for muting / unmuting... maybe. Anyway, the suggested check may tell IF the signal is actually getting "inside" ic400 properly as those output pins, regardless of setting should see a "clean signal".

Further, since you know that only FL appears to be an issue, you can narrow some "poke testing" down to that in a few others area. As suggested earlier, in an unpowered/ disconnected unit state, you can do various checks with a meter... along with your eyes (ie. visual) looking for cracked joints / bad soldering. In the case of ic400, ensure that pins associated with FL are indeed connected "well". NOTE: in the page 32, that grounds for what appears to be ALL internals, seem to have seperate pins. Perhaps the ground for FL is not good (depending on the internals of the chip, it may have problems therein)... that can be checked by probe touching on the pin of the chip, not the solder point and referencing it back to some ground point elsewhere. This could tell you about the integrity of the pin contact point. Again, just an example.

Some other checks using a different "route". Input you test signal in the video audio input and look for the result in the rec output side of things (scope or otherwise).... is anything different?

[jason123]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

I don't mind drilling further.. I'll tap into 75 / 76 pins of IC400.

My comment on Volume control is based on page 17 of the manual and block diagram of the IC. Seems volume data & Volume clock goes from IC2105 to IC400, and block diagram of IC shows gain stage of 0 to +20 dB before it goes to output pins.

Yeah I'm not sure what Direct is for sure. So I'll keep drilling.

[budwich]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

OK.... possibly about your "straight" selection didn't change anything.... but unless you know the design "exactly", it is possibly that "straight" doesn't necessarily mean "not touched". Anyway, I think IC400 doesn't do anything with the "gain", IC400 is a "selector unit" which switches things from the input to output for processing / control. I think you need to check things further as suggested. My guess is you have a potential problem with processing and or groundings may be.... plus I think you may have more than one problem (ie. "onion skin").

[jason123]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

NOT so fast.... there is more to this than "in and out". Nothing is "straight forward" unless you have selected "straight thru", otherwise even though you think its "in and out" simply... it might go in on the SACCD BUT it might come out and go to processing AND come BACK. The coming back might not be any good... you said "signal gets to all channels fine except FL"... but what's "all channels", you are only inputting on a "source" that only has FR / FL in, so you should only see output on FR / FL and even that might still NOT be only JUST FR/FL "plain".... depending on settings.

You need to find a way to look at pins 75/76 on ic400 to see what's "inside" IC400 BEFORE processing.... carefully. Go from the result....

I have selected straight through (A. Direct ?) and same result. Just for my understanding, IC400is what adjusts gain of signal going to amplifier. So if IC400 gain adjustment jumps from zero to almost full scale from Vol Min to 1 out of 72 .. doesnt that suggest the problem is with ic400? Even if input is not 100% good, I would expect gain adjustment to do something at output of IC400. Wrong?

[jason123]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

Also compare pin 51 and pin 52 (inputs to the input selector) on IC400. Make sure the source is on the SA-CD / audio in input and the selector is properly set. Also compare the input pins to the output on the negative side on above mentioned caps, or directly on IC400...
You're doing good!

Confused a bit here.. are you suggesting that input is not coming to the proceesor right, maybe? Due to damage in the SA-CD / CD circuit? So i can test this by testing a different input path (Say TV Audio Input)?

If my understanding is correct, IC400 Pin 14 is behaving the same with TV INPUT (same amplitde jitter and no volume change)

[budwich]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

NOT so fast.... there is more to this than "in and out". Nothing is "straight forward" unless you have selected "straight thru", otherwise even though you think its "in and out" simply... it might go in on the SACCD BUT it might come out and go to processing AND come BACK. The coming back might not be any good... you said "signal gets to all channels fine except FL"... but what's "all channels", you are only inputting on a "source" that only has FR / FL in, so you should only see output on FR / FL and even that might still NOT be only JUST FR/FL "plain".... depending on settings.

You need to find a way to look at pins 75/76 on ic400 to see what's "inside" IC400 BEFORE processing.... carefully. Go from the result....

[CapLeaker]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

Did you do post #51 & #52?
Unfortunately input selectors can be very hard to find. Same was the case with my Sony that I tried to repair years ago and at the end it had a MCU problem too.

[jason123]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

Ok...removed c710 and tapped into the IC400 Pin 14. Though amplitude unloaded is lower, it shows the same amplitude jitter and no change to amplitude with Volume up.

Seems IC400 needs to be replaced. Here is the sad part, it is BD3470KS2 from what i can see and it doesn't seem to be available anywhere... all this work for nothing, maybe. I learned a lot! Thanks for the help and if anyone has leads, please let me know

[jason123]

Re: Sony STR-DN1030 Distorted audio when Volume adjusted

C710 replaced no change.
Removing it now