choosing new battery bms

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  • petehall347
    Badcaps Legend
    • Jan 2015
    • 4426
    • United Kingdom

    #1

    choosing new battery bms

    i have an e bike battery pack in need of a new bms .the old one went up in smoke . its a yamaha one .
    was wondering if a say a cheapo 30 amp one would do it ? and would it be possible to use the original working charger as it has 4 connections .
    can post pics later if needed .
  • sam_sam_sam
    Badcaps Legend
    • Jul 2011
    • 6037
    • USA

    #2
    Re: choosing new battery bms

    Please post some pictures of this BSM balancing protection board that you have maybe there might be one that would work correctly you might be able use some of what you have with some modifications

    ( using your charger to a new BMS balancing protection board )

    I would probably recommend a 100 amp one for more headroom if I were doing this repair and upgrade it for more amperage capabilities

    If you would post what voltage and what type lithium ion batteries that are being used I would help you find one

    I have watched some of his videos in the past and he has some good ideas about this topic

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT-1gvkFj60

    Here is another video which is very interesting

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2sBhDxmPmA&t=0s
    Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 04-07-2021, 10:13 AM.

    Comment

    • eccerr0r
      Solder Sloth
      • Nov 2012
      • 8698
      • USA

      #3
      Re: choosing new battery bms

      agree that probably need higher amperage, at 30A without knowing more details probably doesn't have enough capacity for motor starts (though the motor control board may soften this spike...) 30A sounds like less than 1HP which is probably ok for quarter HP motors depending on voltage.

      Comment

      • petehall347
        Badcaps Legend
        • Jan 2015
        • 4426
        • United Kingdom

        #4
        Re: choosing new battery bms

        its a 10s battery pack .the old bms pcb is a total wreck . i will get details of the bike off the owner . as i don't have it here .
        will post pics later .

        Comment

        • petehall347
          Badcaps Legend
          • Jan 2015
          • 4426
          • United Kingdom

          #5
          Re: choosing new battery bms

          some pics
          Attached Files

          Comment

          • eccerr0r
            Solder Sloth
            • Nov 2012
            • 8698
            • USA

            #6
            Re: choosing new battery bms

            30A probably would work IMHO for most cases at 10S but only if the motor was rated for around 1HP or less.

            As for the original charger, who knows what the extra wires are for...need to do research...

            Looks like the batteries took a bit of a bite there... ooh that doesnt look good...

            Comment

            • sam_sam_sam
              Badcaps Legend
              • Jul 2011
              • 6037
              • USA

              #7
              Re: choosing new battery bms

              I would highly recommend that you carefully check each cell for voltage and amperage output I have a feeling that you might have battery issues as well

              Comment

              • petehall347
                Badcaps Legend
                • Jan 2015
                • 4426
                • United Kingdom

                #8
                Re: choosing new battery bms

                yep i had found a shorted fet and blown double thermal fuse but wanted to see the other side of the board and it decided to self destruct whilst removing solder from the tabs . yes i realise now i should have disconnected the main +- first .even so it still could have done that . guessing it was a bit of solder shoerted it .. scared the shit out of me as i had to pick it up and take outdoors whilst fire was shooting out of it . wish i had a vid of it but didnt have time for that .

                Comment

                • petehall347
                  Badcaps Legend
                  • Jan 2015
                  • 4426
                  • United Kingdom

                  #9
                  Re: choosing new battery bms

                  the pack seems fine all balanced for voltage .

                  Comment

                  • sam_sam_sam
                    Badcaps Legend
                    • Jul 2011
                    • 6037
                    • USA

                    #10
                    Re: choosing new battery bms

                    Originally posted by petehall347
                    the pack seems fine all balanced for voltage .
                    If you are going to look at a BMS balancing protection board you need to desolder ( or cut the tabs to the board if you can safely ) the batteries from the board before you start trying to look at it or troubleshooting it

                    I hold my breath every time I work on these type of board and batteries because I know shit can go very wrong in a hurry

                    So did fry the the batteries as well “ whilst removing solder from the tabs. ” this might mean that it pressure release from the internal pressure of the batteries and they might not be very good anymore ( because it happened to me once and the voltage was still there but the battery would leak fluid from the positive side of the battery

                    What is the voltage on the plus and negative terminals of the battery pack

                    Because I am confused about the configuration of this pack because correct me if I am wrong but I counted 36 batteries and if this count is correct then it could not be 10s
                    Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 04-07-2021, 11:51 AM.

                    Comment

                    • petehall347
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Jan 2015
                      • 4426
                      • United Kingdom

                      #11
                      Re: choosing new battery bms

                      its 36v ..
                      bike is a haibike ..yamaha motor ..from what i can find the most it will be is 500w . most are 250w . will know for sure when i hear back from the owner .

                      Comment

                      • petehall347
                        Badcaps Legend
                        • Jan 2015
                        • 4426
                        • United Kingdom

                        #12
                        Re: choosing new battery bms

                        ok its a 250w motor .. ebay ad says 30a is good for less than 1000 w . no idea if that figure is inflated somehow like they do .

                        oh the battery is 400wh .
                        Last edited by petehall347; 04-07-2021, 12:50 PM.

                        Comment

                        • petehall347
                          Badcaps Legend
                          • Jan 2015
                          • 4426
                          • United Kingdom

                          #13
                          Re: choosing new battery bms

                          this is the bms i am looking at ..what do you folks think ?
                          https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10S-36V-3...IAAOSwAK5gCU4p

                          Comment

                          • sam_sam_sam
                            Badcaps Legend
                            • Jul 2011
                            • 6037
                            • USA

                            #14
                            Re: choosing new battery bms

                            Originally posted by petehall347
                            this is the bms i am looking at ..what do you folks think ?
                            https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10S-36V-3...IAAOSwAK5gCU4p
                            I would think so but I would consider putting a fast acting fuse for maximum current including inrush current just in case of failure of the BMS balancing protection board or put individual fuses on each cells

                            There are videos on you tube that shows how some people are doing this concept

                            Or get a 50 amp BSM protection balancing protection board for add safety

                            Comment

                            • eccerr0r
                              Solder Sloth
                              • Nov 2012
                              • 8698
                              • USA

                              #15
                              Re: choosing new battery bms

                              I think 30A @ 36V is enough margin for 250W even with inrush, but I think the "throttle" control should deal with inrush for you actually.

                              Kind of funny people would play with 10S3P packs and not with a quart of gasoline ...
                              (I think the quart of gasoline is still contains more energy than 10S3P pack?)

                              Comment

                              • petehall347
                                Badcaps Legend
                                • Jan 2015
                                • 4426
                                • United Kingdom

                                #16
                                Re: choosing new battery bms

                                bms arrived today and its pretty small . will fit it anyway and see what the charger thinks of it .

                                Comment

                                • petehall347
                                  Badcaps Legend
                                  • Jan 2015
                                  • 4426
                                  • United Kingdom

                                  #17
                                  Re: choosing new battery bms

                                  as suspected with new bms wired in it doesnt charge ..i have another battery pack here that is a copy one . i was trying to find the same bms as fitted to that one but cant find one . i have pics of the wiring . will post below .
                                  black blue green red go to the charger port .
                                  Attached Files
                                  Last edited by petehall347; 04-19-2021, 06:23 AM.

                                  Comment

                                  • sam_sam_sam
                                    Badcaps Legend
                                    • Jul 2011
                                    • 6037
                                    • USA

                                    #18
                                    Re: choosing new battery bms

                                    Is this the type of charger that requires voltage from the battery to activate the charging circuit

                                    Comment

                                    • petehall347
                                      Badcaps Legend
                                      • Jan 2015
                                      • 4426
                                      • United Kingdom

                                      #19
                                      Re: choosing new battery bms

                                      it looks that way .
                                      even if i get it charging i dont know what to do about the data wire that goes to the electronics from the battery .

                                      Comment

                                      • sam_sam_sam
                                        Badcaps Legend
                                        • Jul 2011
                                        • 6037
                                        • USA

                                        #20
                                        Re: choosing new battery bms

                                        Originally posted by petehall347
                                        it looks that way .
                                        even if i get it charging i dont know what to do about the data wire that goes to the electronics from the battery .
                                        If it has this it would not be useful unless you disable this part of the circuit

                                        Can you find output side of the power supply to bypass this part of the circuit

                                        Or just get a switching power supply that can limit current and voltage and be done with it

                                        Some of these chargers use a temperature sensor device for monitoring the temperature unless it also monitoring the voltage and current algorithms some way if it this type you do not have a very good chance of getting this to work correctly
                                        Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 04-19-2021, 10:21 AM.

                                        Comment

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