Turning on and off AC MR16 LEDs with logic level DC

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  • sam_sam_sam
    Badcaps Legend
    • Jul 2011
    • 6018
    • USA

    #21
    Re: Turning on and off AC MR16 LEDs with logic level DC

    Originally posted by redwire
    Tore apart a Philips MR16 LED bulb. I busted it up a bit because of the glass housing and silicone glue.

    The main board has a bridge rectifier and 270uF 30V filter cap with AL8821 boost-converter for MR16 LED's.

    The bulb has a 20V COB LED with current control SOIC-8 PLD1B/H1A01A and 0.75R current-set, on the heatsink. I'm not sure what that is for. It's a two-pin connector between the boost and LED board.

    This is different from the ones that I have taken apart

    Comment

    • stj
      Great Sage 齊天大聖
      • Dec 2009
      • 30908
      • Albion

      #22
      Re: Turning on and off AC MR16 LEDs with logic level DC

      Originally posted by budm
      Can you please provide the link to that info?
      Resistive load (non inductive resistor, lamp (PTC)): An RMS voltage produces the same heating effect as a the same DC voltage.
      it was on eevblog a while back, it was part of a discusion of hallogen lamps burning out much faster on dc supplies vs the ac electronic transformers / toroids.

      Comment

      • stj
        Great Sage 齊天大聖
        • Dec 2009
        • 30908
        • Albion

        #23
        Re: Turning on and off AC MR16 LEDs with logic level DC

        Originally posted by redwire
        Tore apart a Philips MR16 LED bulb. I busted it up a bit because of the glass housing and silicone glue.

        The main board has a bridge rectifier and 270uF 30V filter cap with AL8821 boost-converter for MR16 LED's.

        The bulb has a 20V COB LED with current control SOIC-8 PLD1B/H1A01A and 0.75R current-set, on the heatsink. I'm not sure what that is for. It's a two-pin connector between the boost and LED board.
        nice led,
        makes me want to go look at these lights at £-land with the intension of stripping them!

        Comment

        • sam_sam_sam
          Badcaps Legend
          • Jul 2011
          • 6018
          • USA

          #24
          Re: Turning on and off AC MR16 LEDs with logic level DC

          Originally posted by stj
          nice led,
          makes me want to go look at these lights at £-land with the intension of stripping them!
          I was thinking the same exact thing when I saw the insides of that LED module

          Comment

          • sam_sam_sam
            Badcaps Legend
            • Jul 2011
            • 6018
            • USA

            #25
            Re: Turning on and off AC MR16 LEDs with logic level DC

            Originally posted by redwire
            Tore apart a Philips MR16 LED bulb. I busted it up a bit because of the glass housing and silicone glue.

            The main board has a bridge rectifier and 270uF 30V filter cap with AL8821 boost-converter for MR16 LED's.

            The bulb has a 20V COB LED with current control SOIC-8 PLD1B/H1A01A and 0.75R current-set, on the heatsink. I'm not sure what that is for. It's a two-pin connector between the boost and LED board.
            When and where did you buy them from

            Comment

            • eccerr0r
              Solder Sloth
              • Nov 2012
              • 8658
              • USA

              #26
              Re: Turning on and off AC MR16 LEDs with logic level DC

              Ah interesting, I was thinking these LEDs were buck converters but a boost converter would be equally a legitimate solution...
              Now whether the rectifier can stand 100% duty cycle DC is the next question...

              Comment

              • stj
                Great Sage 齊天大聖
                • Dec 2009
                • 30908
                • Albion

                #27
                Re: Turning on and off AC MR16 LEDs with logic level DC

                it will be 1A atleast.
                as for dc/ac the frequency of mains really isnt fast enough to make a difference to the diodes current handling.

                Comment

                • eccerr0r
                  Solder Sloth
                  • Nov 2012
                  • 8658
                  • USA

                  #28
                  Re: Turning on and off AC MR16 LEDs with logic level DC

                  Well, if they are all 1N4001s that support 1A continuous, a bridge, two of the diodes would be conducting half of the time. So the average current for each of the pairs would be only half amp as they would not be conducting half of the time, and the RMS power dissipation would be 0.7V * 0.5A average = only 0.35W compared to now, 0.7V * 1A = 0.7W - double the power. Plus heat generated could derate the diodes.

                  So it depends on how the rectifiers are made, if they used something other than 1N4001s then it would be better. I saw a couple designs using 1N5820s which would give much more headroom, but the premise is still there.

                  Comment

                  • budm
                    Badcaps Legend
                    • Feb 2010
                    • 40746
                    • USA

                    #29
                    Re: Turning on and off AC MR16 LEDs with logic level DC

                    The way the unit is sealed like that, I will doubt that it will properly dissipate the heat.
                    Never stop learning
                    Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                    Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                    Inverter testing using old CFL:
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                    Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                    http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                    TV Factory reset codes listing:
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                    Comment

                    • redwire
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 3900
                      • Canada

                      #30
                      Re: Turning on and off AC MR16 LEDs with logic level DC

                      Originally posted by sam_sam_sam
                      When and where did you buy them from
                      The Philips glass LED MR16 I got at Home Depot. Can't remember if 35W. Their old style has a bunch of small LEDs while the new ones went single COB, across the board in their floodlights and spotlights. The COB sucks because it is very narrow angle and not as bright. But the CRI is the best I've seen. Cree products are no longer in HD stores.

                      I also got GU10 for mains power instead of 12VAC. The Ikea 7.5W 600lm GU10 is also very good but 2700K a bit warmish. 17 leds and also uses bridge rectifer.

                      Comment

                      • eccerr0r
                        Solder Sloth
                        • Nov 2012
                        • 8658
                        • USA

                        #31
                        Re: Turning on and off AC MR16 LEDs with logic level DC

                        Well, the GU10 is completely different, it's more akin to A19 bulb systems, which we're forced to use isolation anyway and thus making this thread go off a tangent by eliminating the H-tree and open collector/drain solutions...

                        The 1G Soraa MR16 has a single very bright unit AFAICT. It's a 50W replacement and is significantly brighter than a 20W halogen MR16 that I have. I also have another newer MR16 LED which also claims to be a 50W replacement - it is very bright too, but just a tad dimmer than the Soraa but uses less power. I can't really tell the light output difference without a light meter. Both have similar beam output.

                        Comment

                        • redwire
                          Badcaps Legend
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 3900
                          • Canada

                          #32
                          Re: Turning on and off AC MR16 LEDs with logic level DC

                          I think all AC-powered LED bulbs use a bridge rectifier up front, so DC operation would be possible. "dimmable" verses "non-dimmable" is an issue.

                          Soraa: "Works with trailing edge and leading edge phase cut dimmers, 12V AC magnetic and electronic transformers and 12V DC transformers"

                          Are you wanting to use AC or DC to power the LED bulbs?
                          I think the options so far:

                          1. Use a relay or triac on primary or secondary of the step-down transformer
                          2. MOSFET SSR on secondary
                          3. Use a BJT/MOSFET after a rectifier giving DC to the lamps.

                          Comment

                          • eccerr0r
                            Solder Sloth
                            • Nov 2012
                            • 8658
                            • USA

                            #33
                            Re: Turning on and off AC MR16 LEDs with logic level DC

                            "12V DC transformers"... hah.

                            Well that's the question post in the original post, suppose I had both 12VDC and 12VAC available, which is the cheapest (primary goal; also considering damage to the LED lamp module if DC can damage the rectifiers due to 100% duty cycle) and correspondingly most efficient way (in terms of power waste) as a secondary goal to power and control them.

                            I'm just a bit concerned because the lamps do not explicitly say AC/DC, they just say AC.

                            Comment

                            • sam_sam_sam
                              Badcaps Legend
                              • Jul 2011
                              • 6018
                              • USA

                              #34
                              Re: Turning on and off AC MR16 LEDs with logic level DC

                              Originally posted by eccerr0r
                              I'm just a bit concerned because the lamps do not explicitly say AC/DC, they just say AC.
                              The problem is you do not know if it has just one diode or it is a bridge rectifier unless you take it apart and look

                              Comment

                              • eccerr0r
                                Solder Sloth
                                • Nov 2012
                                • 8658
                                • USA

                                #35
                                Re: Turning on and off AC MR16 LEDs with logic level DC

                                They're bridges for sure, since I can turn the DC around and it will still light!

                                Comment

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