32 vs 64

[joshnz]

In my opinion x64 is needed more memory addresses also is inportant un servers where int values are greater than 4294967295.

[Uranium-235]

Re: 32 vs 64

there are ways some software can bypass integer limitations without going to 64-bit

but in general, most servers need it for reaching past 4gb limitations

[joshnz]

Re: 32 vs 64

I have noticed that x64 in my system uses more ram but on the flip side some apps i use are x64 only. software sometimes = slower due to it using the cpu to stitch data together.
also in sites like youtube i would guess they get faster conversion from x64.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: 32 vs 64

Getting past 4GB is about the only valid reason to use x64.
Thing is, even when it comes to servers few actually need it.
-
In my research regarding running social networking sites a few years ago I discovered most of them were using dual P3 web servers with 4GB RAM and either a MySQL or SQL data base. They typically ran 20,000 users [accounts] per server and they weren't slow at the user end.

The *need* for more has more to do with good marketing by people selling hardware than it does with an actual need.
.

[joshnz]

Re: 32 vs 64

Then why have software makers brought into this game. If they hadn't i would not require x67.

[ratdude747]

Re: 32 vs 64

The other reason for x64 is some things ore optimised by 64 bit instructions`... it's the way of the future.

see:

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15098

[PCBONEZ]

Re: 32 vs 64

Then why have software makers brought into this game. If they hadn't i would not require x64.

More Money.
.
.
The entire computer industry [software and hardware] "justifies it's own employment" by "forced obsolescence" and the leaders in that are Microsoft and Intel, aka "Wintel".
.
If you could still buy a new computer with XP [or even Win98] a lot of consumers would because they don't -need- any more than that.
- So things are manipulated to make that impossible.
.
Win7 [and x64] is going to become the standard not because most people -want- it but because 'most' people don't give a damn about what their OS is [as long as it works] and that is what new computers happen come with.
.
.... So if your software manufacturer wants to stay in business they HAVE to adopt x64 eventually.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: 32 vs 64

The other reason for x64 is some things ore optimised by 64 bit instructions`... it's the way of the future.

see:

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15098

It's the 'way of the future' due to the Forced Obsolescence.

They can build cars with 4-wheel steering since YEARS ago - and that's better - but you don't those on every corner do you?
- If new cars only came with 4-wheel steering you eventually would.
- If car manufactures refused to make parts for 2-wheel steering cars that would be Forced Obsolescence of 2-wheel steering.
.

[ratdude747]

Re: 32 vs 64

It's the 'way of the future' due to the Forced Obsolescence.

They can build cars with 4-wheel steering since YEARS ago - and that's better - but you don't those on every corner do you?
- If new cars only came with 4-wheel steering you eventually would.
- If car manufactures refused to make parts for 2-wheel steering cars that would be Forced Obsolescence of 2-wheel steering.
.

if that were true, then 3 speed automatics would still be common.

besides, with time, people will find uses for x64. digital camera were like that once (why pay more when film works just fine), but look at them now? everything anymore has a digital camera in it...

once people see an advantage they like it and buy it. they just have to see it for themselves. like the car vs horse and buggy- at first cars were no better than horses but once it got better it was obvious.

things we may see in the future that 64 bit made feasible:

- better GUIs that are more graphical and more intuative (ms still isn't that intuative, its just familiar to most)
-better integration of multimedia into genral computing
-alternative input methods (like mottion tracking, facial recognition. etc.)


you have to start sometime...

[pfrcom]

Re: 32 vs 64

Ever hear of a factor called growth ?

Ever hear of when it works don't fix it?
Good plan when you run a business.
.

That's what CEOs of computer companies used to say in the days when IBM and the BUNCH (Burroughs, Univac, NCR, Control Data, Honeywell) dominated IT

Not to mention mini-computer companies like DEC, DG, Wang, Prime et al

No coincidence that most of them are not around any more

Given personal computers, people's expectations constantly increase, not just fast response time but simplicity of accessing data

As a general rule, the simpler something is for the user, the more computer resources are needed to provide it

Hence what's being considered at my workplace

Depends on the server

We're migrating to Itanium servers, and DBAs want to try having an Oracle database in memory

Can't do that with a 32-bit memory limit

[PCBONEZ]

Re: 32 vs 64

if that were true, then 3 speed automatics would still be common.

Wrong.
That's another case of Forced Obsolescence.
The automakers needed to shit cars that got better mileage to meet gov't regulations so that quit making 3 speeds.
The average car user doesn't give a shit [and most of them don't even know] how many gears it has.
As long as when they put it drive and it works they're good with 'whatever is in there'.
- If you don't believe me ask around.
You'll be surprised how many people don't have the slightest idea how many gears their own transmission has.

digital camera were like that once (why pay more when film works just fine), but look at them now? everything anymore has a digital camera in it...

My Niece is a Pro Photographer and still uses film.
She shot a Wedding in May and pulled down $5k+ for the one shoot so I'm thinkin' she knows what she's doing.
So yes, film still works fine. In fact it's often better.
Digital is popular because it's CHEAPER. [barring throw away cameras].
When x64 becomes -cheaper- than x32 you let me know.

things we may see in the future that 64 bit made feasible:

- Translation.
"There is no practical use or actual need for it now, but there might be someday."
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: 32 vs 64

I don't agree at all.

That's what CEOs of computer companies used to say in the days when IBM and the BUNCH (Burroughs, Univac, NCR, Control Data, Honeywell) dominated IT

These companies learned their lessons, are still here, and do nothing 'bleeding edge' anymore. They haven't for YEARS.
- And THAT'S why they are still here..

Not to mention mini-computer companies like DEC, DG, Wang, Prime et al

- DEC [Digital Equipment Corporation] didn't fail, it was bought out by Compaq and Intel.
- Wang's one bankruptcy [from which they recovered] was due to them trying something new.
- Wang was later sold to Getronics for $3.5 billion. [illion with a 'b'.]
...... I'd hardly call those failures and I'm not looking up the other two.

Given personal computers, people's expectations constantly increase,

Only to enthusiasts,,,
,,, who have this bad habit of thinking what they want [or think they need] is the same as everyone else.
MOST computer users care about as much about the tech inside their PC as they do the tech inside their refrigerator or toaster.
.
"Does it have an ice maker?" = "Does it have DVD burner."
That's about as deep as it goes - with MOST people.
.

[Topcat]

Re: 32 vs 64

FWIW, the server for this site is a dual Xeon @ 3.06/533 FSB. They are only 32 bit. Server has 4gb ram.....and keeps up just fine.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: 32 vs 64

And that's what a sensible business does.......

[shadow]

Re: 32 vs 64

Actually seems pretty powerful for a web server.

[Per Hansson]

Re: 32 vs 64

things we may see in the future that 64 bit made feasible:

- better GUIs that are more graphical and more intuative (ms still isn't that intuative, its just familiar to most)
-better integration of multimedia into genral computing
-alternative input methods (like mottion tracking, facial recognition. etc.)


you have to start sometime...

WTF are you on about?
You WANT the OS to use 4GB of RAM for it's GUI alone, well have I a got a great product to sell you good sir!

Getting past 4GB is about the only valid reason to use x64.
Thing is, even when it comes to servers few actually need it.
-
In my research regarding running social networking sites a few years ago I discovered most of them were using dual P3 web servers with 4GB RAM and either a MySQL or SQL data base. They typically ran 20,000 users [accounts] per server and they weren't slow at the user end.

The *need* for more has more to do with good marketing by people selling hardware than it does with an actual need.
.

A few years ago in computing is a long time, I'm not saying you are wrong, just that most sites are hopfully running with Core based processors because you can run into some real slowdowns with the Netburst processors and MySQL / Apache combination running a vBulletin forum...
Btw, do you mean 20000 active users or 20000 accounts?
for my personal use and work use i have long needed to switch to x64
Due to Solidworks CAD software and my other CAD/CAM software products
For personal use it's obviously due to the games, they crash whenever they cross the 2GB address space limitation of a 32bit OS (Well, same problem the work apps has of course)

It's the 'way of the future' due to the Forced Obsolescence.

They can build cars with 4-wheel steering since YEARS ago - and that's better - but you don't those on every corner do you?
- If new cars only came with 4-wheel steering you eventually would.
- If car manufactures refused to make parts for 2-wheel steering cars that would be Forced Obsolescence of 2-wheel steering.
.

Indeed it's better, but also allot more expensive and that is why we only see it on Wheeloaders and some very uncommon cars.
Anything that is more expensive with little added benefit is not going to get a big market.

Wrong.
That's another case of Forced Obsolescence.
The automakers needed to shit cars that got better mileage to meet gov't regulations so that quit making 3 speeds.
The average car user doesn't give a shit [and most of them don't even know] how many gears it has.
.

Europe is allot different than the US (90% of cars here are manual transmission)
But I fail to see how people even in the US would not want cars with better gas milage, sure, we pay about 3x as much for fuel in Europe, but better gas milage is a win for the customer no matter the fuel cost (well I guess if he gets it for free it's a moot point but who does that, please leave me a PM)

1 US Liquid Gallon of Regular Gas (95 Octane RON, comparable to 91 Octane AKI in the US) costs right now in Sweden; $8

[Uranium-235]

Re: 32 vs 64

FWIW, the server for this site is a dual Xeon @ 3.06/533 FSB. They are only 32 bit. Server has 4gb ram.....and keeps up just fine.

I have a poweredge 1800, 2x 3.0 HT /w 800 bus and 64-bit I can sell. You can get some super super ram in there, run this site with 16gb of unneeded ram. although I only have 2 in there right now

[joshnz]

Re: 32 vs 64

.You can get some super super ram in there, run this site with 16gb of unneeded ram.

who knows TopCat may run a multimedia site

[PCBONEZ]

Re: 32 vs 64

A few years ago in computing is a long time, I'm not saying you are wrong, just that most sites are hopfully running with Core based processors because you can run into some real slowdowns with the Netburst processors and MySQL / Apache combination running a vBulletin forum...

1: Still wouldn't need x64.
2: There are probably WELL over 1000 sites that don't need that much for every one that does. Can't call that typical.

Btw, do you mean 20000 active users or 20000 accounts?

That was clear.

for my personal use and work use i have long needed to switch to x64
Due to Solidworks CAD software and my other CAD/CAM software products
For personal use it's obviously due to the games, they crash whenever they cross the 2GB address space limitation of a 32bit OS (Well, same problem the work apps has of course)

Again, that isn't a typical use.
You are talking about a high end special purpose machine.
That's like comparing a grocery-getter to a race car.

Indeed it's better, but also allot more expensive and that is why we only see it on Wheeloaders and some very uncommon cars.
Anything that is more expensive with little added benefit is not going to get a big market.

You mean like x64 in a basic file server, a basic web server, a web store, a home PC, those at the hospital's desks, the account's desks, the salesman's desk, the stores at the mall, and the rest of the desks that compromise typical uses?
- That would be why Wintel engages in Forced Obsolescence.

Europe is allot different than the US (90% of cars here are manual transmission)
But I fail to see how people even in the US would not want cars with better gas milage, sure, we pay about 3x as much for fuel in Europe, but better gas milage is a win for the customer no matter the fuel cost (well I guess if he gets it for free it's a moot point but who does that, please leave me a PM)

You completely missed the point. [And that it was about ATs.]
3-spd AT didn't fade away because the typical car buyers were asking for it.
Typical car buyers don't have the slightest idea what's down there - or how it affects mileage.
Point was: That change didn't come about -> Due to market pressure.

BTW: I've achieved 20-22 mpg with warmed over '60's V8s in 2800-3200 pound cars with 3-spd ATs several times by carefully selecting parts.
- Why is it so many comparable size '90's and 2000's cars with V6's and 4-spd or 5-spd AT's can't match that mileage?
I also managed to get 19 mpg out of a 4000 pound car with a warmed 390 cid engine with a 4bbl carb - and it wasn't a wimp. [In stock form that engine/car got 9 mpg.]
-
Despite what they say I don't think 'they' are trying THAT hard to save gas.
.

[Per Hansson]

Re: 32 vs 64

I'm sorry. I guess I just misunderstood most of your replies
English isn't my native language...