The 2021 Operating System Thread

[Uranium-235]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

I agree with the part in bald text only.
Though, yes, you are correct that Windows 10 on a mechanical HDD is painful.

Windows 7, on the other hand, can still be very snappy on a mechanical HDD - better than 10 on SSD, in many cases.

I frequently use those single-platter 250 GB WD Blue HDDs in my better Win7 builds, and boot times (from pressing power button to ready to use PC on desktop) can be as fast as 20-25 seconds, depending on how fast each system goes through POST and whatnot. Then again, my Windows 7 installs are super-clean - no self-starting crap of any kind, other than necessary drivers and services. The key is to turn off a lot of the crap that is usually enabled on a stock Windows 7 install.

As for XP... seriously, you're only "maybe" considering that it can work on a mechanical?
XP SP2/SP3 can be very quick even on slightly older mechanical HDDs. Just don't go too far back, like those 10-20 GB multi-platter drives from the very early 2000's or older... or 2.5" notebook low-RPM drives (that actually applies to newer HDDs too.) Again, key is to turn off some stuff that are normally turned on by default (Indexing Service, anyone? )

*EDIT*
I find it funny how the polls turned out so far for this year, with legacy Windows (Vista, XP, 2k, and etc.) still getting more votes than Mac OS/X or Windows 8/8.1, just like last year. No wonder Keri J. ran off - we just can't seem to show any love for the Macs here.

actually my shop box does have 10 on a mechanical drive. A 2tb WD RE. You can def. tell it has some slow boot and loading

I can get a $29 SSD from newegg and everything works great

I also need 10 to make Easeus partition disks, to use the 10 PE that has native USB 3.0 support

[momaka]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

What's bald text? Sans serif?

good catch.
Kind of funny I highlighted my own mistake for everyone to see, too. Epic

[diif]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

I agree with the part in bald text only.

What's bald text? Sans serif?

[dmill89]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

Windows 10 on a mechanical HDD is painful.

It runs ok on a 10k rpm Velociraptor (though just ok, not exactly "snappy") , but yes a "standard" 7,200 rpm drive is very slow and a 5,400 rpm drive borderline unusable.

[momaka]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

Personally, I would never install 10 on anything other than an SSD. Hell I would not install win7 on anything other than an SSD either. XP is probably ok

I agree with the part in bald text only.
Though, yes, you are correct that Windows 10 on a mechanical HDD is painful.

Windows 7, on the other hand, can still be very snappy on a mechanical HDD - better than 10 on SSD, in many cases.

I frequently use those single-platter 250 GB WD Blue HDDs in my better Win7 builds, and boot times (from pressing power button to ready to use PC on desktop) can be as fast as 20-25 seconds, depending on how fast each system goes through POST and whatnot. Then again, my Windows 7 installs are super-clean - no self-starting crap of any kind, other than necessary drivers and services. The key is to turn off a lot of the crap that is usually enabled on a stock Windows 7 install.

As for XP... seriously, you're only "maybe" considering that it can work on a mechanical?
XP SP2/SP3 can be very quick even on slightly older mechanical HDDs. Just don't go too far back, like those 10-20 GB multi-platter drives from the very early 2000's or older... or 2.5" notebook low-RPM drives (that actually applies to newer HDDs too.) Again, key is to turn off some stuff that are normally turned on by default (Indexing Service, anyone? )

*EDIT*
I find it funny how the polls turned out so far for this year, with legacy Windows (Vista, XP, 2k, and etc.) still getting more votes than Mac OS/X or Windows 8/8.1, just like last year. No wonder Keri J. ran off - we just can't seem to show any love for the Macs here.

[ratdude747]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

Reminds me of Core Duo, (pre-Core 2) which were pretty much dual-core Pentium Ms. Those were 32-bit only, IIRC.

Yes, core was 32 bit. Back then UEFI was pretty much limited to Macs.

The 32bit UEFI on a x64 CPU issue traces back to such CPUs. For whatever reason Apple wasn't able to (or just chose not to) use x64 UEFI on early core2 implementations (macbooks and macbook pros if memory serves), possibly to ensure compatibility with thier original non-core2 Intel offerings. IIRC for x64 windows this wasn't an issue since they were booting from boot camp (UEFI support didn't come until windows 7), but it made linux bootloader installs a bit irregular if one wanted x64. On my first bay trail tablet (with the same 32 bit UEFI on 64 bit CPU issue, I tried to linux it (PC linux distros, not Android), and I had to deal with this to get x64 going (wasn't too bad once set up)... but driver shortcomings and lousy on-screen-keyboard support killed it off. Maybe it's better now, but I'll take modded 8.1 over Android (the other natively supported OS) any day, and as little as I use them any more, I can't be bothered to dick with it more.

[Uranium-235]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

But not links to pages, SMB servers and programs that have just exe, but are not installed. If it is not in the start menu as installed program, you cant pin it.
I found a workaround, but this should be option out of the box.
I have encountered this bug multiple times with systems with dual core processors and at least 4GB of RAM. Makes them sluggish and almost unusable.

I have a self upgraded Asus laptop (X401a, you'll see another thread from me somewhere about these). It has a sandy bridge 2020M (dual core) with 4gb and a SSD and it's...somewhat sluggish, but certainly usable

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

For one, they're x64, although many early models used a 32 bit uefi, which like some early C2D macbooks, precludes x64 windows. Four cores too.

Reminds me of Core Duo, (pre-Core 2) which were pretty much dual-core Pentium Ms. Those were 32-bit only, IIRC.

[televizora]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

You can pin stuff to the icons on the right of the start menu but yeah, not as main folders

But not links to pages, SMB servers and programs that have just exe, but are not installed. If it is not in the start menu as installed program, you cant pin it.
I found a workaround, but this should be option out of the box.
I have encountered this bug multiple times with systems with dual core processors and at least 4GB of RAM. Makes them sluggish and almost unusable.

[Topcat]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

...with 2004 20H2 they've gotten rid of the system information item and turned it into a settings.

2004, system info is still there. 20h2 was the first I noticed this......and it's fugging retarded!!

[Uranium-235]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

Do you know what annoys me most in Win10? Lack of personalization options.
You cant even pin programs to start menu, unless you manually create folder in the dirs of the start menu, put icons there and then pin them. So, if you have a program that is exe only, like WinBox you cant pin it there. Neither you can pin shortcut to URL like page or SMB path. You cant put shortcuts to bat files either. Nor you can pin them to quicklaunch. The new control panel is almost useless and terrible. I don't understand why you need 2 control panels. And I made shortcut to it, put it in folder, after I found where start menu items are held and then pinned it to the start menu.
If they just remove the bug with 50% CPU, 100% HDD by Software protection, remove forced updates, privacy violations and the new control panel and leave alone the old one, Win10 can become decent OS. And Microsoft account crap. I want local account, I neither need, nor want Microsoft.

You can pin stuff to the icons on the right of the start menu but yeah, not as main folders

you can get to the old control panel by start -> run -> type "control" but yeah, with 2004 20H2 they've gotten rid of the system information item and turned it into a settings

I haven't encountered said bug. Maybe it's related to older systems?

100% HDD is normal for a new install of 10 on older systems. It will go down after updates are taken. Personally, I would never install 10 on anything other than an SSD. Hell I would not install win7 on anything other than an SSD either. XP is probably ok

[televizora]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

That's incorrect. 8.1 was what 8.0 should have been! 8.1 allows you to boot directly to desktop with a Start menu. You're not forced to use the "Start screen".

You are right. 8.1 is better than 8.0, but still much worse than Windows7. Windows10 fixed some of Metro nonsense, but on the other hand forces updates and tracks you. The 2 Control panels are absolute nonsense in both 8.0, 8.1 and 10. 8.1 will soon be no longer supported. But programs will continue to support 7 for quite some time, because it is popular.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

you have 2 options - cope with buggy 8.1 Metro without any third party apps or use Windows10.

That's incorrect. 8.1 was what 8.0 should have been! 8.1 allows you to boot directly to desktop with a Start menu. You're not forced to use the "Start screen".

[momaka]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

Coming late to the game here, as always.

The legacy Windows option now has a single vote... and you know by who.

Yup, I'm still beating on ol' XP here. Well, OK, I'm not doing everything solely on XP, that's for sure. If anything, I have a hard time saying whether I have more hours logged on Windows 7 or XP this year. Thanks to PC games (at least modern or semi-modern online ones) and YouTube, I've had to resort to Win7 for that. But for everything else, like office-type work, organizing/storing my music, pictures, and documents, browsing eBay and badcaps.net, looking up datasheets, and downloading drivers... it was still all done on my Dell Optiplex 170L with Windows XP Pro PC, which I still consider my "mainstream" PC.

That said, if I do add the hours on Windows 7/10 from my last workplace, then no, I can't say I used XP more than 7/10 this year. But I think that goes for just about any workplace really, since almost all places have now switched to Win 10. So IMO it's kind of irrelevant to consider an organization's / workplace's computer as your "mainstream" OS as far as this thread goes.

[Topcat]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

I did. I showed you on a prior visit. For those playing at home:

• Classic Shell (windows 7 mode)
• A handful of taskbar settings changed (such as starting on the desktop), which were added in 8.1.
• All unneded Metro apps removed (I keep mail and camera at a minimum, though)
• Install Modernmix (not quite free ) to make metro apps run in actual windows (not just full screen)

Yea, I do remember you walking me through that now.... Good work!

FWIW, I was given a HP laptop in mint/new condition with W10 in S-mode as mentioned earlier. I reloaded it (didn't know how to disable s-mode at the time). It's a HP 14CB164WM, N4000 Celeron @ 1.1GHz dual-core. It's not dazzling, but it's not bad at all either. Great basic use....but I wouldn't want a heavy load on it either.

[ratdude747]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

Who modded it>? The manufacturer of the tablet or M$; perhaps an 'unofficial' embedded edition of 8.1? The 8.1 UI with a few tweaks is actually very nice.

I did. I showed you on a prior visit. For those playing at home:

• Classic Shell (windows 7 mode)
• A handful of taskbar settings changed (such as starting on the desktop), which were added in 8.1.
• All unneded Metro apps removed (I keep mail and camera at a minimum, though)
• Install Modernmix (not quite free ) to make metro apps run in actual windows (not just full screen)

Windows 10 does (or can easily do) most of these, but the third item is where windows 10 standard breaks (or at least it did a couple years ago), and when one only has a 32GB boot drive, the space saved by such does matter. The only way to de-bloat the metro apps was to use poweshell, and even then, OS security updates re-installed every single bleeping app. 10 pro hasn't had that issue (can natively delete apps like all versions of 8.1, and isn't reinstalled upon OS update), although I didn't start using 10 pro until a couple years later, so perhaps M$ added it to all windows 10 versions in an update?

I have an atom N270 in a tiny Dell 10". Can't even do youtube with 480p

You're off by about six years (2008 vs 2014). N2xx Netbook Atoms (Bonnel) are indeed gutless (I used to daily one years and years ago, before upgrading to an old Latitude D400 with a pentium M!).

But Bay trail was a quantum leap from that... For one, they're x64, although many early models used a 32 bit uefi, which like some early C2D macbooks, precludes x64 windows. Four cores too. I have novabench data somewhere of such, but I will say that when they behave, they can do 1080p youtube (30fps, 60fps gets sketchy). Sometimes mine would get laggy though; I chalk this up to windows update or some other background service sometimes tying things up.

[TechGeek]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

She asked what laptop I'd buy if it were me. She listened.

I've got a Precision 3541. I have it, but don't own it. Won't until mid-2022 (school-owned). It's getting a copy of Debian 10/11 thrown on it as soon as it becomes mine.

[Topcat]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

Going from a cheap HP to a Dell Precision is a hell of an upgrade.

You can still buy Office. I did it a few months ago (when I bought the ThinkPad).

She asked what laptop I'd buy if it were me. She listened.

[lti]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

Someone gave me a new HP laptop because of that. At the time I didn't know how to disable it beyond reloading it. She said not to worry about, she bought a new dell precision with Pro on it, and asked if I'd toss an older version of Office on it so she didn't have to get raped for the subscription.

Going from a cheap HP to a Dell Precision is a hell of an upgrade.

You can still buy Office. I did it a few months ago (when I bought the ThinkPad).

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: The 2021 Operating System Thread

For web browsers, Pale Moon 28.17.0, FTW!