The 2020 Operating System Thread

[stj]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

i have not forgotten all the people who said that when support for 7 ends they will learn Linux rather than use 10.
i remember the same comments about XP but 10 is way worse than 7 - so we shall see.
yes, a friend couldnt get his programmer working yesterday - 10 "updated" aka fucked his serial2usb drivers!!

[Topcat]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

i have not forgotten all the people who said that when support for 7 ends they will learn Linux rather than use 10.
i remember the same comments about XP but 10 is way worse than 7 - so we shall see.
yes, a friend couldnt get his programmer working yesterday - 10 "updated" aka fucked his serial2usb drivers!!

If I said it, I don't recall....but it's possible...as long as 10 has been out, I still haven't warmed up to it. It functions nice (inspite of me not liking the removal of aero glass), I will say that....but the embedded crapware/spyware is what I have a hard time with....unlike Win7, which my main gripe was its resource hogging....which SP1 fixed...and then I warmed up to 7.

S2K12 R2 in 'workstation mode' bought me atleast another 3 years of life without win10. I set 10 up for people all the time, and I have a couple w10 'beta' machines in the sandbox for testing purposes....but none in my 'working fleet', and no plans for any.

[Curious.George]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

but the embedded crapware/spyware is what I have a hard time with....

I hear (friends/neighbors) that the updates are frequent and LARGE. The idea of losing a portion of my internet connection to a piece of software that (must have been!) released in an incomplete state is just not an idea I'm fond of!

Esp if your only "exposure" is a browser and email client!

[stj]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

it's worse than that, it's a decentralised p2p update system,
the updates are cached on your machine and then you become a host-server to send the update to others - at your expense bandwidth/cpu cycle wise.

[diif]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

it's worse than that, it's a decentralised p2p update system,
the updates are cached on your machine and then you become a host-server to send the update to others - at your expense bandwidth/cpu cycle wise.

It's customisable, there's no giving anything away if you don't want it.

[stj]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

like the "metrics"?? we know how far you can trust them with that.

the windows10 EULA may aswell look like this:

By agreeing to this document, you are PaWnEd.
---all your shit belong to us(m$ corp)---
we ticked the box for you so you need to opt-out - if you can find it.

(we hold the right to update this shit at will with no notification to the second party)

[diif]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

like the "metrics"?? we know how far you can trust them with that.

the windows10 EULA may aswell look like this:

About as much as we can trust some of your wild claims.

What lies about the metrics have they told ? What is to be gained by offering an update system that operates differently to how they say (bugs aside).

The biggest issues I have with Windows 10 is the massive amounts of white.
What a shit UI.

[stj]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

if you use wireshark on your firewall/router you will see m$ sending shit home regardless of your choices - also updates often flip the settings.

a quick web search will find loads of people complaining about this.

[eccerr0r]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

Anyone wireshark their phones, not really any different, demand more from phones before demanding more from win10...

I don't know what I'm going to do when my 10 year old nokia phone dies... So many things on it already failed, so it's on borrowed time...

[lti]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

updates often flip the settings.

Updates just change random settings (usually default programs).

There was a setting that allowed Windows 10 to automatically connect to unsecured public hotspots, and it was on by default. That was one of the random settings I've seen Windows reset during an update. My parents' computer automatically connected to a hotspot while it had a perfectly working wired network connection, and nobody knew until I tried to help them with something else. Fortunately, it was removed in version 1803 because it was a really stupid security flaw.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...rosoft-privacy

[Per Hansson]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

I voted Win7.
And seeing how stubborn I am it will remain like that for a while I imagine
Maybe I'll upgrade to 8.1 if security patches for Win7 does not get leaked.
Well, there is already a project on MDL with working patches so it seems far fetched

[Topcat]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

I voted Win7.
And seeing how stubborn I am it will remain like that for a while I imagine
Maybe I'll upgrade to 8.1 if security patches for Win7 does not get leaked.
Well, there is already a project on MDL with working patches so it seems far fetched

Same here. My office machine is the heaviest used....and the one that would be the most difficult/frustrating to migrate. If security patches make their way down, it'll kick the can down the road a while longer for this machine.....which I'm fine with. It wouldn't bother me a bit to run Win7 to the point I can't get a modern browser for it anymore, that's when I know it's time to move on.

[dmill89]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

Same here. My office machine is the heaviest used....and the one that would be the most difficult/frustrating to migrate. If security patches make their way down, it'll kick the can down the road a while longer for this machine.....which I'm fine with. It wouldn't bother me a bit to run Win7 to the point I can't get a modern browser for it anymore, that's when I know it's time to move on.

Pretty much the same here. I do have 10 on my main laptop (which came pre installed on my new one) which is what I primarily use for web browsing. Everything else has 7 and will stay that way until 3rd, party application support drops to the point where it is no longer a viable OS (which given it still has a >30% market share will likely be awhile).

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

Did Microsoft get their stuff together after Windows 10 build 18xx?

On the new Ryzen 3 system I built yesterday, I saw Windows 10 updating go through like nothing really happened!
No Windows Update error code at all, finally!

Also, even 10 now, logs in as fast as 8.1! I never saw Windows 10 on a desktop log in as fast before!

[Curious.George]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

Same here. My office machine is the heaviest used....and the one that would be the most difficult/frustrating to migrate. If security patches make their way down, it'll kick the can down the road a while longer for this machine.....which I'm fine with. It wouldn't bother me a bit to run Win7 to the point I can't get a modern browser for it anymore, that's when I know it's time to move on.

Separate your online needs from your "other" needs. Then, you only have to keep the online apps (and OS) secure. If that means moving to a different OS, then none of your other apps need be concerned about the migration. (and, you keep all of that "other app" data inaccessible to malware!)

I install the latest patch level available when I build a machine; none thereafter. As most patches are for security flaws, I never see a downside to this approach (in terms of performance/functionality).

[Topcat]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

I install the latest patch level available when I build a machine; none thereafter. As most patches are for security flaws, I never see a downside to this approach (in terms of performance/functionality).

I do the same....Install, then a handfull of MSU's, then WSUS is completely turned off. I will patch things if something big comes up (like wannacry, etc).... I have several HTPC's in the fleet running Win7, and a modified version of WMC (windows media center). It's running hacks that allow the view/play of raw ISO's of DVD's (rahter than having to extract all the VOB's) on a NAS that are seen as normal DVD's in the movie list. Newer versions of WMC removed the ability to play DVD's at all, so those machines will never be up'd to anything newer than Win7. They have no connection to the outside world, so not an issue.

[stj]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

Anyone wireshark their phones, not really any different, demand more from phones before demanding more from win10...

I don't know what I'm going to do when my 10 year old nokia phone dies... So many things on it already failed, so it's on borrowed time...

*my* phone does not send data anywhere - it's running SailFish Linux.

when you need a replacement phone - check this link:
https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris

[Topcat]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

Did Microsoft get their stuff together after Windows 10 build 18xx?

On the new Ryzen 3 system I built yesterday, I saw Windows 10 updating go through like nothing really happened!
No Windows Update error code at all, finally!

Also, even 10 now, logs in as fast as 8.1! I never saw Windows 10 on a desktop log in as fast before!

I've done several 1903 builds for clients....functions pretty decent....but there's always the 'shut up' issue. I also noticed in 1903, THIS ISSUE has returned....I friggin hate it!

FWIW, build 1903 (home & pro) still activate from Win7 upgrades utilizing digital entitlement licenses from THIS METHOD. I did this on a client machine Friday, no problem.

[momaka]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

This is going to be a hard choice. I'm really torn up between Windows XP and 7.

That's right, I still haven't ditched XP on what I call my "main" PC... which is what is hard to define now. And here's why: I consider my "main" computer the one on which I do work and store important things (taxes, documents, bills, personal photos, and etc.) To this day, the majority of all that is still handled by my ancient Pentium 4 Dell Optiplex 170L that I built back when I went back to college again (so around 2013.) For then, this PC was adequate for all of those things and even online browsing without any issues (Firefox 24 was considered a "solid" release by many folks back then, and everything worked on it.) But a few years after, all modern browsers eventually dropped support for XP. As such, I've been struggling to use my main PC on more and more websites (partially because newer versions of FF run like ass, and partially because some modern websites also use ridiculous scripts now, which hog resources on an old CPU like crazy.)

For these reasons, I've been setting up Windows 7 for myself to mess around on more and more. For example, I kicked off the beginning of last year by building a more "modern" gaming PC (for my timeline, anyways ) based on a Core 2 Quad Q6600 with... Windows 7. I also set up a HTPC/streaming PC for my parents based on Windows 7. Then I build several random PCs just to test their hardware stability... and these were all too old for XP, so they got Win7, again. Finally, starting this past spring when I got a new job, my work laptop also happens to be Windows 7 (technically I should have gotten a newer Windows 10 laptop, but our company's IT didn't have enough and I needed one for field work ASAP... so they found several old ones and let me pick one. Of course, I picked the older Dell Latitude E-series with Windows 7 ).

So technically, now my "true" _work_ PC is Windows 7, simply because that's what I use at work on day-to-day basis. And with my gaming and various other PCs I mess around with also on Windows 7... one could conclude I ought to vote Windows 7.

Yet, I vote for Windows XP.
Why? -Because despite all of the above, I still use that old P4' Dell Optiplex 170L (that I still call "main" PC) very actively. Even on New Year's Eve, I was listening to music and organizing files on that PC... thus I just had to go with XP.

Will that change this year? - I don't know. All I know is that I do need to build a new "main" PC that can actually handle at least more of today's web than this dinosaur Pentium 4 box. I am still debating on whether to try and push XP for another year or move to Win7, though.

Yes, I've finally warmed up enough to Win7 that I actually consider it for use as a "main" PC. Ironic, as Windows 7 support is just ending at the beginning of this year. But hey, that's how my current main PC was set up too: when I cleaned it and installed XP on it back in 2013, that's when support for XP was ending. Look at how many years of use I've gotten out of it! - Almost 7!! Perhaps that in itself is (almost) a reason to switch to Win7 now??

I suppose we will see when that happens. Until then, this post (and probably many more still to come) is from my trusty XP box.

IMO Browser Support is what truly does an operating system in (in the consumer world anyway)....when mainstream browsers stop supporting Win7, then it's indeed obsolete.

+10
I couldn't agree more.
This is precisely why I'm considering moving away from XP. Everything else I do on it is fine.
Thankfully Badcaps.net is still a safe heaven for my outdated PCs with their old browsers.

I voted Win7.
And seeing how stubborn I am it will remain like that for a while I imagine
Maybe I'll upgrade to 8.1 if security patches for Win7 does not get leaked.

Sounds like a plan.
That's what I'm thinking about doing when modern games stop supporting Windows 7. Then again, for gaming, I probably won't care that much if I ran 10.
But for main PC... it will definitely be Windows 7 when I'm done with XP... and then probably 8.1 when 7 is too outmoded to work with anything.

But Windows 10?? :\ Ugh, I don't know about that.
I've used it and I think it's actually not that bad compared to Win7. But like Win7, there are just things in the shell there that IMO really make no sense compared to XP. Moreover, the constant updates, especially when they change some of my settings (which I know they well might) would absolutely drive me crazy. For "main rigs", I like to set up the computer and then not mess with it anymore after that - especially on the software side (not unless something is critical or really needed.) Hardware-wise, I may sometimes infrequently do small upgrades or changes. But overall, that's a very rare case.

Anyone wireshark their phones, not really any different, demand more from phones before demanding more from win10...

Yup, completely agree here.
The problem is, majority of folks just don't care. They'll easily sign their life away just to continue to have their "social" media.

Me? I don't have anything to hide, so I couldn't care less about my privacy. But it's the fact that companies collect this information and make money off of it is what pisses me off. Even worse when they start sending you targeted advertising - especially in the mail!

I don't know what I'm going to do when my 10 year old nokia phone dies... So many things on it already failed, so it's on borrowed time...

Well, it's the battery that'll probably make you have to give it in. The original, even if the best, will not last forever. I know, because my 12-year-old Samsung "dumb" phone is in that board - although its battery still holds a very good charge, it's starting to bulge! And the phone is just tired to death already, with most of the buttons starting to un-glue and fall out, and the cell antenna getting weak for whatever reason, as my coverage has gone from mediocre to hardly any.

Do you remember the days of having to do that manually?

Yes.
- Because I still do it that way.

Then again, my music collection is very tightly picked and thus not too large - I don't have the full albums of many artists (because there are very few artists from which I can say I like every song in their entire album.) And the type of music I listen to nowadays is mostly comprised of individual "singles". So all in all, it's not too hard to manually tag and manage.

Besides, I like grouping my music based on when I've heard it (rather than by artist or alphabetical order or genre... and etc.) As such, I have various songs from various artists and genres typically group in "seasonal" folders for every year. To anyone else, this "organization" is probably completely bizarre (if one can even say there is any organization.) But to me, it actually makes perfect sense in my head! (Yes, I actually know where every song is this way.)

[Pentium4User]

Re: The 2020 Operating System Thread

Lubuntu 19.10 with LXDE on main system
Lubuntu 18.04 on laptop
Debian 10 on Pentium M laptop