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**i4004** · 11-01-2008, 08:43 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

acstech, buy mobos with intel chipsets, don't be THAT cheap.
(in the end you gain nothing more than problems with those crappy chipsets)

i dunno why would one even consider buying via, sis or simillar?
why?
you'll save so much money you'll buy 2 pcs?
come on....

and especially if you're building for customers....

**PCBONEZ** · 11-01-2008, 09:14 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

I like VIA chipsets for P3 Tualatin systems because they support 1 to 1.5 GB RAM where the Intel chipset options support 512MB max.
-
I used a lot of them with AMD K6-2 500MHz back in the Super 7 days.
Loved VIA chipsets back then.
-
Had a few VIA chipset P4 boards (early P4 before 800MHz FSB) and they were 'just okay'. - Just okay was good enough for those systems intended use anyway.

SIS - They pissed me off with their glitchy on chipset video back during Socket 7 and I haven't had one since.
Going to try one again soon. - Have a weird SIS chipset board coming in shipping.
Mini-ITX, Intel made and branded motherboard, SIS chipset.
- How weird is that?
Intel board with SIS Chipset...

**Wizard** · 11-01-2008, 09:36 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

That's D201GLY2 is also soldered down celeron, and inexpensive too, would be great one to have. I couldn't get it so got this atom board instead. ITX also.

Cheers, Wizard

**acstech** · 11-01-2008, 09:39 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

Originally posted by i4004

acstech, buy mobos with intel chipsets, don't be THAT cheap.
(in the end you gain nothing more than problems with those crappy chipsets)

i dunno why would one even consider buying via, sis or simillar?
why?
you'll save so much money you'll buy 2 pcs?
come on....

and especially if you're building for customers....

With AMD processors?

Now that I'm building Intel based computers, yes, I use Intel chipsets.

Edit: I had my fill of VIA and SIS a long time ago. Not touching them with a 10' pole. Nor will I use an Nvidia chipset with an Intel processor. Since Intel has the better processors now and for the foreseeable future, I wont be using an Nvidia chipset for quite a while.

Re-edit: The Nvidia chipset boards I used that were not made by Asus worked fine.

**i4004** · 11-02-2008, 09:40 AM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

people used to say amd will give you more bang for the buck.
i wonder how much more was it, at the height of the amd craze?
5%? 10%? and was that worth the hassle of unstability and incompatibility that can be produced just by picking amd.
far from saying everything amd ever did was crap, but intel surely has better track record when it comes to reliability: intel cpu and intel chipset.

as for mobo i pretty much agree with pcbonez:
intel first, and then asus. msi or gigabyte...
didn't pick intel mobo this time as there were no win2k drivers for stuff i wanted: not the older designs but something with support for quad etc.
this asus mobo costed me as 2 cheaper intel mobos of somewhat older design....was it worth it? sure, i got new design that can run win2k...
again, i really don't understand how can intel make such cheap boards with all (or most) japanese caps...essentially nobody else is doing that...these are cheap and solid boards...offcourse they have more expensive models too....those are probably indestructable...heck cheap ones probably are too...they won't be overclocked, have intel chipset and jap caps...when you look at it you see they know exactly what they're doing. nice and tidy.

so i believe asus can be hit and miss....IF you buy non-intel chipset, AND you buy cheapest model.
going intel and not the bottom cheapest stuff should make you safe...probably even with plenty of mobo manufacturers of the day....

offcourse and still, look at the caps...

**kc8adu** · 11-02-2008, 10:16 AM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

i wound up getting a fujitsu seimens d 16 something in for recapping last week.
very heavy,thick board.
shitty gay purple ost caps though.
they were not bulging but this thing could have been marketed as a bsod generator.
a recap and now the customer jokingly accused me of sending some other brand of board painted up like the f-s.
turns out this board had been unstable from new!
f-s quoted $800 for a replacement in this industrial pc.
the caps were crap from new.
i have another 45 of these coming in for recap now.
f-s blamed all the instabilities from new on anything they did not provide all the way down to the network cables and monitors.
even at its best this box was reported to crash 2-3 times a day.
now it had been running 24/7 a week now without a glitch after the recap? ROFLOL!

**PCBONEZ** · 11-02-2008, 03:05 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

There is a glitch in my earlier post where I put Abit with Supermicro in one place and later I put Abit with Asus, Gigabyte, and MSI.
-
Clarification. (It depends on vintage.)

Abit before about 2003?? +/- 1yr should go with Asus, Gigabyte, and MSI.
- They didn't care where the caps came from before the problem was known.

When the problem first started (and no one knew what was going on yet) Abit reacted like Asus.
Later when the problem was known for sure Abit reacted more like Gigabyte.
Since then Abit got serious (getting sued may have helped that along) about what caps they use and are at least on a par with Supermicro. They may be even better but I haven't seen enough 2004 to present Abit boards to make that call.

I think Abit ~almost~ went under and out of business over the capacitor problems.

.

**PCBONEZ** · 11-02-2008, 03:06 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

Originally posted by kc8adu

i wound up getting a fujitsu seimens d 16 something in for recapping last week.
very heavy,thick board.
shitty gay purple ost caps though.
they were not bulging but this thing could have been marketed as a bsod generator.
a recap and now the customer jokingly accused me of sending some other brand of board painted up like the f-s.
turns out this board had been unstable from new!
f-s quoted $800 for a replacement in this industrial pc.
the caps were crap from new.
i have another 45 of these coming in for recap now.
f-s blamed all the instabilities from new on anything they did not provide all the way down to the network cables and monitors.
even at its best this box was reported to crash 2-3 times a day.
now it had been running 24/7 a week now without a glitch after the recap? ROFLOL!

Thanks for the tip.
Been wondering about Fujitsu Siemens.
Your post confirms my suspicions.
.

**PCBONEZ** · 11-02-2008, 03:28 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

Originally posted by i4004

people used to say amd will give you more bang for the buck.
i wonder how much more was it, at the height of the amd craze?
5%? 10%? and was that worth the hassle of unstability and incompatibility that can be produced just by picking amd.

AMD CPU's kicked butt in Intel from late 486 to 1Ghz CPUs.
[AMD made a Pentium class 133MHz CPU that fit in a 486 board.]

With the P3 Tualatin Intel took the throne back for a while.
I honestly haven't paid much attention to Intel vs AMD since then because I'm not a gamer and I don't use XP so anything above 1Ghz works just fine for me. For basic use PC's (mine) I've only upgraded past 1Ghz to get on-board USB 2.0 and better on-board video.

The instability problems were largely due to people using cheap PSUs.

The core voltages dropped on AMD's CPUs before they did on Intel's.
You 'HAD' to use a PSU with low ripple or you 'WERE' going to have problems.
- Many people never 'got' that and were trying to run Athlons on Deer based (or similar) PSUs.
Memory compatibility got blamed often as the cause of issues when the real problem was a cheap PSU. (Or Tayeh/GSC/similar caps.)

.

**i4004** · 11-02-2008, 03:40 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

well, it seems abit DID went under
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_abit
but not because of badcaps.

also their future seems grim
"By 2009, Abit will no longer sell motherboards and may focus on CE field. Warranties will still be handled by Abit for another 3 years or so."

btw. what are the comapnies that admited the mistake and went under?
somehow that doesn't seem what one would expect, as there are probably 3 categories of boards:
good ones(like intel..they were always using good components)
usually good ones(taiwanese companies that are mostly good, but had problems with badcaps)
crap ones (chinese companies that are gambling with crappiest stuff they can sell)

crap ones probably don't have anby moral values whatsoever, as they wouldn't be making crap if they had..hehe..
good ones don't have a problem as they usually won't have to pull back anything(even warranty is on low %)
as for these in the middle...well, they can go either way, but somehow i doubt they'll go under JUST because of bad caps: something i would expect would be they go down but because of these that just can make more boards(asus, msi, gbyte etc.)

talking about asus, who would buy "pegatron" mobo?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus#Co..._restructuring
though it seems they'll keep the name
http://www.dailytech.com/New+ASUS+Co...ticle10206.htm
http://www.dailytech.com/Asustek+to+...rticle7905.htm

probably has to do with this
"An ASUS employee, speaking on conditions of anonymity, thinks change is for the better. "I think the motherboard market has reached its ceiling," he states."

what they want is the constant growth: if they can't grow in mobo business, they'll try other things.
stupid bastards...

**PCBONEZ** · 11-02-2008, 04:32 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

>> What are the comapnies that admited the mistake and went under? <<

Abit - hahahaha

I didn't know it killed Abit.
I suspect the double whammy of the stolen electrolyte followed by the Nichicon HN/HM issue got them.
2005 would make that about right.

Soyo is also gone over the caps fiasco.
Company still exists but the quit making motherboards several years ago.
They got sued over motherboards with bad caps 2 years after they quit building motherboards.

Making crap -
That's the thing. - The manufacturers didn't know they were using crap.
-
Companies were going along just doing what they always did and then suddenly the caps they were using changed - and they didn't know it (didn't know for sure what was going on) for a couple years.
-
You can't 'hit' them for using 'known crap' when the crap wasn't 'known' to be crap until -after- they used it. - That's just not fair.
-
You can hit them for not honoring warranties and trying to pretend there wasn't a problem. - That's just wrong.
.

~~~~~

"constant growth"
You can't have growth in a saturated market.
[Regardless of what you are selling]
There is a point where more features are pointless to most people.
- What they already have meets their needs. No need to update/upgrade.
- And they don't want to pay extra for things they don't need or want.
There is also a point where everyone that wants one has one.
When those points are reached all you are doing is replacing old ones.
~~ That's a slow market.

Surveying my wife and my own immediate families (people I know with PC's that aren't 'into' PC's as a hobby, don't use them for a business, and aren't 'gamers'.)
- Comes to 11 PC's.
NONE are looking to upgrade.
Only one has a PC over 2.4 GHz.
Two are still using P3's.
-
What they have meets their needs. - They don't need or want a new one.

Windows is in the same boat as motherboards.
- That situation is exactly why Microsoft is jerking around trying to make software that requires new hardware to run.
- And why manufacturers are building hardware and not creating drivers for older OS's.

~~~ Wintel and their friends are trying to fabricate a market where one doesn't exist.

.

**genosmm** · 11-02-2008, 05:08 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

Thanks again everyone all your comments have been Very Educational!

What I am looking for now are websites that actually mention capacitor type and mfrs or have a "good track record" in separating the good from the bad motherboards.

Am interested in what website reviews you consider worthwhile.

Guess this is not necessary if stick with Intel motherboards. I have 2 old Dells and they are both still working.

Question

oes Dell still only use Intel boards?

Did some checking but did not find anything recent. http://www.hardforum.com/archive/ind.../t-954849.html

Gene

**i4004** · 11-02-2008, 07:24 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

there's probably a lot of market if you look beyond "developed world".
but there's surely a limit to how much they can make and sell during a month.
so they probably wanna go beyond that limit by making other things, laptops etc.

ms states new release cycle 3 years.
i see no point in that whatsoever.
make it once, but make it good.
to that extent i don't really know why they made xp or vista: with a tweak here and there 2k could take all new hardware....

for most people ghz is enough, i agree.

**acstech** · 11-02-2008, 10:11 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

Originally posted by i4004

ms states new release cycle 3 years.
i see no point in that whatsoever.
make it once, but make it good.

Profit. $$$

**PCBONEZ** · 11-02-2008, 11:14 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

Originally posted by genosmm

Thanks again everyone all your comments have been Very Educational!

What I am looking for now are websites that actually mention capacitor type and mfrs or have a "good track record" in separating the good from the bad motherboards.

Am interested in what website reviews you consider worthwhile.

Guess this is not necessary if stick with Intel motherboards. I have 2 old Dells and they are both still working.

Question

oes Dell still only use Intel boards?

Did some checking but did not find anything recent. http://www.hardforum.com/archive/ind.../t-954849.html

Gene

There was an issue with Intel made boards from 2001 to 2004 in which a good brand of caps had a manufacturing defect.
Those caps were Nichicon HN and HM Series.
(Only those series were affected.)

That problem (good brand with a defect) caught EVERYONE by surprise.
EVERYONE including Intel and Apple/MAC used the faulty caps.
Many Dells were affected. (Many everyone was affected.)

.

**PCBONEZ** · 11-02-2008, 11:39 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

Originally posted by i4004

there's probably a lot of market if you look beyond "developed world".

Thing is the market beyond the "developed world" lives to a large extent on used parts from the developed world.
There are dealers that specialize in buying up obsolete computers (in bulk lots) and shipping them off to 3rd world countries for resale.
Examples: (Of the 'want' ads)
http://www.73.com/a/0516W.shtml <- Coppermine and 440BX boards sought.
http://www.73.com/a/0063W.shtml
http://www.73.com/a/0267W.shtml <- Someone wants 700 486's in that one.

Beginning with XP those people can't exist on illegal copies of Windows anymore and so are more prone to learning Linux from the beginning.
- That means fewer people in those countries are 'addicted' to Windows.
That's just another way MS, their copy protection paranoia, and their high prices has worked against them. Eventually that may lead to areas of the world where most people don't even know how to use Windows.

.

**genosmm** · 11-04-2008, 06:19 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

The new Intel X58 Express based motherboards from Intel, MSI, GIGABYTE, ASUS and EVGA have caught my attention.

Have decided to start a new post https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...7358#post57358

Still have not found a review site that lists what caps are used and do not have access to a local store that stocks motherboards.

Can this information be obtained from the mfrs? I do realize that this may change.

Thanks

Gene

**i4004** · 11-04-2008, 06:40 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

you can see it from the pix.
bigger the pic, easier to spot what capacitors it uses...

**PCBONEZ** · 11-04-2008, 10:45 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

Yup

But watch out for those electrolytic's that look like polys.
If they have vent stamps they aren't poly.

**370forlife** · 11-05-2008, 03:13 PM

Re: How Different Mainboard Mfrs Handle Bad Caps?

Originally posted by PCBONEZ

AMD CPU's kicked butt in Intel from late 486 to 1Ghz CPUs.
[AMD made a Pentium class 133MHz CPU that fit in a 486 board.]

With the P3 Tualatin Intel took the throne back for a while.
I honestly haven't paid much attention to Intel vs AMD since then because I'm not a gamer and I don't use XP so anything above 1Ghz works just fine for me. For basic use PC's (mine) I've only upgraded past 1Ghz to get on-board USB 2.0 and better on-board video.

The instability problems were largely due to people using cheap PSUs.

The core voltages dropped on AMD's CPUs before they did on Intel's.
You 'HAD' to use a PSU with low ripple or you 'WERE' going to have problems.
- Many people never 'got' that and were trying to run Athlons on Deer based (or similar) PSUs.
Memory compatibility got blamed often as the cause of issues when the real problem was a cheap PSU. (Or Tayeh/GSC/similar caps.)

.

Yes, AMD did kick intel's butt up to athlon 64 vs the p4 era. Long ago, even a stately 1.4ghz thunderbird could hold its own to a 2ghz williamette.

Only reason AMD is lacking now is because their by out of ATI cost them some money, and they are pouring more money into ATI's R+D department, seeing that the future of gaming and graphics are the video cards, not so much the processor.

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