Recommend SVHS Capture Card

[Paul S]

Re: Recommend SVHS Capture Card

Whether you intend to or not, you come across as a rude know-it-all. If you have formed an opinion of something, then everyone else who differs is wrong.

Your treatment of KeriJane was unacceptable! She was sharing her actual experience with us. Just because your experience is different, that doesn't mean she is wrong. You seem to have scared her away. I hope she returns, as a differing point of view is always welcome (to most).

I actually was considering making a post similar to bgavin's, but blew it off. I really didn't want to start that again with you. You don't ever relent. You don't realize that two people can have opposing opinions, yet they both can be right. Opinions are only relevent to the person who formed them.

I'm done.

[i4004]

Re: Recommend SVHS Capture Card

what's worse, to behave like you just did (you come, say your stuff and immediately go away(as your last sentence implies) or stay in the thread no matter how unpleasant it is(for me, because i didn't use any insults on anyone...)?
i can just never be so fuckin ignorable towards other people, wether we agree or not.
when you act like i don't exist it's just crap.

>rude know-it-all.

prove me wrong and i apologize every time. if you can't prove me wrong, and i prove you wrong, what should i do, apologize for being right?
always remember: i always listen, and i always apologize when proven wrong.
no exceptions to that rule.

my treatment of kerijane? because she's female?
i intentionally behaved without thinking about the gender.
total equality just like emancipated woman and feminists propagate.
why not?
i fail to see reason to be insulted; like i said i commented on her standpoint, no personal insults at all.
it does not qualify as flamewar at all. no names calling, just the informative post about why what she said is wrong.

and you're right, i don't let go untill proven wrong. if i'm wrong others will have no problems proving it, and like i said i will listen to them. i don't just expose my opinion and then leave the thread not leaving the opportunity to be wrong and to be corrected.
offcourse i can be wrong. i was wrong many times, apologized for being wrong every time. but hey, i just ask for you to elaborate how/why am i wrong.
i provide explanation on why you're wrong.

>You don't ever relent. You don't realize that two people can have opposing opinions, yet they both can be right.

uh...does this really make sense to you?
you have some truths that are just that: truths. they can be validated, and they were validated. by me and others, like i said.
(i could find screenshots to prove it, but..huh, like i said i alrready had many discussions like this, so i'm kinda tired: take my word for it...or try it for yourself, i gurantee you'll see same things i and everybody else that tried it saw: prove me wrong and call me biggest asshole on the web and i'll agree with you...)

capping with cheap card for 8 years i can't stand people saying cheap cards are crap quality.
kill me.
it's just not true, and here i see gdement and fizzy agreed with me.
i have seen caps done with hardware encoders and i have caps done with cheap cards(i have actual video files, i have done actual tests). do you have same experience? which did you prefer?
if not, what are we talking about here? how can you talk about something you never saw and tried?
if you did, what was wrong with cheap card? perhaps we can shed some light on your problem....

mistake both bgavin and you did is the following: you're attacking the person(me) and not what the person is saying.
you never proved anything i said was wrong.
those who did got apologize from me.

we can have opposing opinion on politics and a number of things: but about which sort of quality one can get from a cheap card, we just can't.
it's the knowledge that was proven time and again.
what does this mean?
it means that capping with more expensive gear WILL NOT produce better quality than capping with cheap cards.
like i said, usually more expensive is better but here we have exception.
if you can prove me wrong, i'm listening.
(how would you do that, i can't say; i have caps done with haupp. pvr series card you mention, and they're rather unimpressive when put against huffyuv or mjpeg of cheap card with saa713x)
if you can't say sun shines in the middle of the night, in a same way you can't say cheap cards are no good. it's same sort of truth.

to mention dv camera, as willa has mentioned it: i have a friend who had issues with capping crappy vhs tapes with his sony dv camera.
he tried method i suggested to him(cheap card with philips saa) and can now cap crap vhs without issues. no blue screen as soon as camera can't pick up the sync from the vhs. i believe he also had audio sync issue, those are now gone too.

because i know it all?
not quite, but because i love capping, i'm into it, and i have friends who do it too, and one of them asked for my help when he had problems with sony dv camera capping.
this doesn't mean dv cam capping wouldn't work for bgavin, as i said ld is better source than vhs, but it means saa713x is more robust capping solution.

the only thing i'm interested is the truth; say cheap cards are crap and don't work, and i'll tell you you're wrong, as simple as that.
if they didn't work for you it doesn't mean system is not working, but that you didn't utilize it in a proper way, and i offer help in utilizing it properly.
because it's cheaper and it produces better quality video.
again, kill me for suggesting cheap way to have better video quality.

like you said in some prev. thread
peace, brother.

and let's not discuss people anymore.
let's discuss capping, although the subject is well discussed by now, different solutions suggested etc.
by now we should of been on issue of encoding files to dvd(mpeg) where you'll also get some good tips from me.

[Paul S]

Re: Recommend SVHS Capture Card

I meant my last post to be informative, not insulting. As you have found, it is difficult to display intent in the written word.

I left sudenly because I am a moderator at another forum, and duty called. I was appointed a mod because of my polite dealings with the posters in that forum.

Continue to add your knowledge to discussions. Just remember what others have said. Give your opinion without putting down the opinions of others.

We have a humorous saying:

Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one. And they all stink, except for mine.

Just a little humor to lighten the thread a little.

Yes, once again,

Peace, brother.

[i4004]

Re: Recommend SVHS Capture Card

>Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one. And they all stink, except for mine.

true!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion

only, this thread should be more about facts. for technical things facts are more usefull than opinions.

what keri has said is her experience, her opinion.
her mistake was to generalize. to apply one case(her case) to all cases.
understandably one would expect these big-name software to work fine for capping(she mentioned premiere, vegas etc.)
but this is not so. capping modules of these progs are pretty bad, and better results are gained with freeware such as vdub or virtualvcr etc.
so what she did is a common mistake of discarding hardware because improper software was picked. that soft is not the righ tool for the job.

anyhow, enough with the repetition: bg got suggestions he asked for, with their good and bad sides mentioned.
it's up to him to decide what will he get.

here are few screenshots(random caps from one of my .avi files)
http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x...ilips_saa713x/

i have some reflection in antenna signal(because of my location) but overall....not "junk", is it?
also it's the space-saving quality settings i use: 480x576(resized to 768x576 to get proper AR) capped to mpeg4@q4. that's really a pretty high compression and it's easy to get better results.
capped on laptop with avertv card which has saa713x in it.

[Paul S]

Re: Recommend SVHS Capture Card

I don't disagree with your position that more expensive hardware won't necessarily mean better pictures. She may not have made proper adjusments in the hardware that didn't work for her.

My OPINION is that DVD's are not real high quality video, by todays standards. The mpeg-4 gives a much better picture with a smaller file size. But it can't be played in a standard DVD player.

Yes, for what bgavin wants, spending a lot of money would be foolish. He hasn't even mentioned how he will make the DVDs. There are a lot of different programs to do that. I will let him ask, before I recommend anything.

[willawake]

Re: Recommend SVHS Capture Card

blah blah fucking blah blah. do i have to read all this shit to moderate? tell me if something cool happens

[Fizzycapola]

Re: Recommend SVHS Capture Card

Dug out another of my archive CDR that still works. Another clip I made 5 years ago
with my AverTV card...

Here is the video download address:
http://rapidshare.com/files/151002988/CanonXM2_.avi

A frame from my clip:


Bear in mind this is recompressed serveral times with lossy codecs. The straight
MPEG2 can be photographic pixel perfect in my opinion, with no combing, audio
desync or other.

Bear in mind, I am a genius and you might not be. Thus not able to achieve this, what I have achieved.

[370forlife]

Re: Recommend SVHS Capture Card

Please recommend a PCI capture card for SVHS input.

I have 300+ laser disks, and my Pioneer LD player is dying. I want to capture my favorite and out-of-print movies before the unit dies.

Host computer is E8400, 1.2tb online storage, 4gb. ABit IP35 Pro.

Personally, I use a ATI tv wonder 200 pci. comes with a think that plugs into it with rca inputs and svideo inputs, as well as coaxial inputs. Good ati software that comes with it, too (it can burn the media to a dvd as it records it, so theres no need to take up hard drive space,) Uses a connexiant chipset, but it has excellent picture and sound, never had any problems.

[i4004]

Re: Recommend SVHS Capture Card

>My OPINION is that DVD's are not real high quality video, by todays standards. The mpeg-4 gives a much better picture with a smaller file size. But it can't be played in a standard DVD player.

mpeg2 really is a sweet standard, like fizzy said.
it's simple and good: sure, it needs higher bitrate to look nice, but when it does, it will actually blow away mpeg4 on lower bitrate.
(i also have numeorus clips of codec comparisons).
mpeg4 was troubled by poor standard implementations(divx and xvid), otoh, if you're talking about hd and h.264, it also has some problems which make it problematic in certain areas(mpeg2 being so robust just eats that image noise without hickups etc.) it can look too smoothed(like a cartoon) etc.

essentially problem is the following: it's not just that cheap consumer grade hardware encoders suck; so do many encoders broadcasters use, as mpeg2 on 18mbit/s should look awesome, if proper encoding was done(for example if i was to show you testing sequences done with a good software encoder, your jaw would probably fall) but when it's not you have blocking etc.
so if you're basing your opinion on atsc, then be aware that it can get a lot better.
i also don't realy like the look of dvd(always looks too soft), but that's equally not the mpeg2 problem, but the fact they process those images too much etc.

when i do a cap and encode it to mpeg2 i'm sure footage looks same as source.
i can fit 4hrs of 480x576 on one 4.35gb dvd media, if i want.

so why am i using mpeg4 at all i hear you ask:
well, it's hard to find a mpeg2 codec that can do constant quality mode(in this mode every frame is compressed with same power, but it means filesize is not fully predictable...so for example grass footage takes much more space than blue sky etc.), and with mpeg4 all codecs have it.
i cap to mpeg4 at constant quality(so i don't get blocking at scenese with explosions , fires etc. every frame is equalyl compressed), edit video(cut what i don't need) compress the audio and burn straight to dvd. simple.

like you say, not everything supports mpeg4(esp. not 480x576 i do) so i do mpeg2 when i make stuff for others. most players do 480x576 mpeg2 just fine.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Recommend SVHS Capture Card

I think there is one important issue with video work, it is just not so simple as most of us would like to believe.
If you do not want to spend a huge amount of money or investing a amount of time to set up the soft & hardware mentioned by i4004 (and certainly to learn the basics) i would suggest to just forget the whole thing and look for another player. You simply can`t have it cheap & easy maintaining the source quality.

On the side of facts, i fully agree with i4004. I have not seen any failure in his factual statements, whereas i know that hardware decoder are not the bullet proof solution like it sounds and they have their own faults, which are not that easily circumvented.
Certainly, i can understand that most people do not want to mess around with this stuff to get acceptable results. For those it is a professional attitude to use what get`s them the required results fast.
But generalizing that is something i can`t stand, as today too much things get a bad reputation for the simple reason that it is not plug & play.

@Off topic
Apart from that, i think if someone feels insulted or can`t stand someones rough tone, i think it is the best to immediately address and clear it with the offender personally with an open and neutral attitude. This will avoid most fuss caused by text based communication.
Certainly i would not have it formulated the way i4004 has done it, as i am very aware how this could be interpreted. But i am sure, that he has seen those statements as an affront to his own work & knowledge.

PS: willa, i think you got it. there is nothing to do for you in this topic. I only hope, that all involved here could get a clear head again and could learn from the issue. I think it is important that anyone who knows something better or has another point of view does comment a topic. This is what i like here and i hope we can maintain this open attitude of discussion.