Ratdude's main rig V5.0

[ratdude747]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

Just better watch out that your hobby doesn't become your Day Job. Seems to me that is were you are heading.

Not really. The only other PCBs I've designed are a crude quadcopter board for a buddy in college and the main board to my senior project.

[ratdude747]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

Idea: UIO the raid card, which frees up a PCIe position. Then install a USB 3.0 card with internal header, and use the header for an AFT USB 3.0 card reader.

I may just buy that UIO card at face value and do the above. While it eliminates the need for my adapter card, it would give me a really fast card reader and 3 USB 3.0 ports to use.

Edit- went ahead and bought the UIO card. I got the idea my offer wouldn't be considered and they did have an awful cheap price compared to everybody else.

[keeney123]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

Not really. The only other PCBs I've designed are a crude quadcopter board for a buddy in college and the main board to my senior project.

Life is not that predictable sometimes a person just fall into something. That is what makes things interesting.

[mariushm]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

I would just eBay all that stuff you received and spend some money on a modern decent build, you should just join everyone in 2016.

A decent motherboard is 65$ : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...81&ignorebbr=1
A cheap and powerful enough CPU would be another 65$ and has built in graphics: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819117625
I don't know what cpus that old motherboard has but i suspect this G4400 will be 75% or more of the total processing power of your two cpus yet use a ton less power and have a way more silent cooler (even the stock cooler will adjust the speed dynamically).
Add a 8 GB DDR4 stick for 28$and you're done : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...71&ignorebbr=1

Basically, a grand total of around $150.

You're probably going to recover this cash in one year by paying less in electricity costs.

Yeah i know you keep saying server motherboards and hardware is super reliable, desktop stuff is crap, but there's really so few failure points in modern hardware that those old sayings don't apply anymore.

[ratdude747]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

I would just eBay all that stuff you received and spend some money on a modern decent build, you should just join everyone in 2016.

A decent motherboard is 65$ : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...81&ignorebbr=1
A cheap and powerful enough CPU would be another 65$ and has built in graphics: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819117625
I don't know what cpus that old motherboard has but i suspect this G4400 will be 75% or more of the total processing power of your two cpus yet use a ton less power and have a way more silent cooler (even the stock cooler will adjust the speed dynamically).
Add a 8 GB DDR4 stick for 28$and you're done : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...71&ignorebbr=1

Basically, a grand total of around $150.

You're probably going to recover this cash in one year by paying less in electricity costs.

Yeah i know you keep saying server motherboards and hardware is super reliable, desktop stuff is crap, but there's really so few failure points in modern hardware that those old sayings don't apply anymore.

I'm not going to comment on the "ditch the workstation and get a muggle computer" idea. You know my thoughts on that, and going on like a broken record isn't going to change anybody's opinion here.

However, I will comment that there is no way in HELL that I would ebay a gift given to me. I've been known to trade them before, but not sell outright. If that's what Topcat wanted, he would have just done that and been done just like what he has done with some of his other stuff. But no, he instead offered me the parts, as he knew I'd use them and appreciate them, unlike half of you in this thread. Have you no morals?

----

Back to the topic at hand:

I've bought some USB 3.0 stuff:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-120-_-Product

That's the card I'm going to use. Apparently renesas is the new NEC, and when it comes to USB cards I've only had good work with NEC. Waste of a 16x slot? Yes. Best option for my usage? I'd say yes as well. I only run two monitors and with the RAID moving to the UIO slot, this would be the next logical step. I already have good (enough) audio on the board already and if I care for a TV tuner I still have a PCI QAM card sitting (I probably will install it too, just for laughs).


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820176022

That's the card reader. Pricey, yeah, I know. I thought about this one a bit... as I could get cheaper 3.0 readers as cheap as $20. However, the cheaper ones looked, well, cheap, and the reported reliability wasn't so good on them. Even the silverstone one for $30 looked like a piece of crap. However, AFT readers (their Pro series and kiosk series especially) are a step or two above everybody else in build quality. They even go as far as to have flip-covers on CF slots (My pro-28u's have them too). They've always been fast and reliable. I will pay for quality when it counts, and given how much I use card readers (just look at all the pics I take and upload here, lol), I see it as money well spent.

While this isn't the cheapest way to get around the USB header delimma, I think it is the best long term as I do use USB 3.0 quite a bit for flash drives and the like.

[ratdude747]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

There could be a show stopper here.

I was messing with one those PSU calculators and it's saying I need a 700W PSU... All I have is a 600W. Problem?

[mariushm]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

Well of course, I mean after asking Topcat if he would be fine with you selling it. I'm also of the opinion that someone shouldn't sell gifts.

Just looking at the thread here... you've probably spent about 40-50$ already in various stuff..

Just that usb 3.0 board is $16 and it's running on pci-express x1 which has a throughput of 500 MB/s or something like that... so you'd have a maximum of 500 MB shared between 4 ports. You're not even able to reach the theoretical throughput of a single usb 3 port.
But you're probably not even going to get close to that 500 MB/s if the x1 slot is connected to the southbridge of that server motherboard.
In contrast, the motherboard i suggested has 4 ports built directly on the back of the board and an additional 2 as a header, and they're each high speed, connected straight to chipset.

I was messing with one those PSU calculators and it's saying I need a 700W PSU... All I have is a 600W. Problem?

I'd say a $550 power supply would work, but you may have to hack the connectors if the board requires to 8pin cpu connectors or crap like that.

[kaboom]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

There could be a show stopper here.

I was messing with one those PSU calculators and it's saying I need a 700W PSU... All I have is a 600W. Problem?

Fake watts, just like "pre-FTC" stereo watts... Say a given video card has an actual demand of 100W. "Suggested" power supply is listed as "500W." However, that's for a deer or other such POS, which while actually capable of only that extra ~100W (to vid card), it will just happen to say "500W" on the sticker.


Just add the full-load TDP of all the CPU and GPU cores. You may be able to find datasheets for the mobo chipset, telling of their TDP as well... FWIW, I calculate ~4W/~15W for my ICH10/P45 respectively.

Figure 10W steady state for modern HDDs- gives you headroom. Spinup currents are higher than steadystate watts will indicate, but that's mostly on +12 for a short period, and only during initial start.

[ratdude747]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

Well of course, I mean after asking Topcat if he would be fine with you selling it. I'm also of the opinion that someone shouldn't sell gifts.

Yeah Topcat knows I wouldn't sell something like that. Also, he is giving it to me because "he didn't want the hardware go to waste" and IMHO selling it would be in that category. He has a bleeping store for crying out loud...

Just looking at the thread here... you've probably spent about 40-50$ already in various stuff..

More than that already... $60 for coolers, $62 on RAID cards (although one of the cards will not be used), $75 on the USB3.0 expansion. Add on more for when I eventually upgrade the GPU and HDDs (or SSDs if the market suddenly changes in an unlikely fashion). Maybe I started the hobby because it could be cheap, but now, that's not the case. I know it costs money to build one of these right. Most of the parts are the best quality I can get my hands on. They're more or less one-time expenses.

Just that usb 3.0 board is $16 and it's running on pci-express x1 which has a throughput of 500 MB/s or something like that... so you'd have a maximum of 500 MB shared between 4 ports. You're not even able to reach the theoretical throughput of a single usb 3 port.
But you're probably not even going to get close to that 500 MB/s if the x1 slot is connected to the southbridge of that server motherboard.

Yeah, and that's true for most of the cards I saw, and all of the ones that had an internal header. Still faster than USB 2.0 and faster than most of my USB 3.0 devices (based on benchmarks I've done with my laptop). While I'm not the most keen on Syba cards, as long as it has a good chip, I'm happy. The other brands with the same plug layout seemed to be using the same PCB so I bet they're all made by the same manufacturer.

Also, it's not that far off. USB 3.0 is spec'd with a top speed of 625 MB/s (5 gigbits). Slower? Yes. A lot slower? Not really in the real world with current devices (and more importantly, my devices).

In contrast, the motherboard i suggested has 4 ports built directly on the back of the board and an additional 2 as a header, and they're each high speed, connected straight to chipset.

Yeah, but that's besides the point. If I want absolute fastest USB 3.0 I have my laptop, which has two USB 3.0 ports also integrated into the chipset. It becomes 4 with my port replicator.

I'd say a $550 power supply would work, but you may have to hack the connectors if the board requires to 8pin cpu connectors or crap like that.

My 600W has all the needed connectors (to my surprise). I'd rather not bomb it though... It's a recapped seasonic at least.

That said, I did see this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SuperMicro-P...4AAOSwAvJXBYXU

According to a chart from supermicro it only has 2 SATA plugs though... While I have modded PSU plug configurations before, I don't like doing it as it sometimes is a PITA to get right. Topcat, you need another PSU?

[ratdude747]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

Fake watts, just like "pre-FTC" stereo watts...

That's why I asked...

Say a given video card has an actual demand of 100W. "Suggested" power supply is listed as "500W." However, that's for a deer or other such POS, which while actually capable of only that extra ~100W (to vid card), it will just happen to say "500W" on the sticker.

Yes and no. First, I've seen deers that actually were quasi OK. It's not like you were talking leadman or powmax . Second, what they mean is 500W between the rest of an average system and the card. For a good PSU that total is more like 350W.

Just add the full-load TDP of all the CPU and GPU cores. You may be able to find datasheets for the mobo chipset, telling of their TDP as well... FWIW, I calculate ~4W/~15W for my ICH10/P45 respectively.

Figure 10W steady state for modern HDDs- gives you headroom. Spinup currents are higher than steadystate watts will indicate, but that's mostly on +12 for a short period, and only during initial start.

Not to mention that based on pictures of the system the board and RAM is coming from, I'll be running 8 4GB FBDIMMS. Those eat power too.

What I don't know is whether the CPUs are X5472's or E5472's... the former has an unlocked multiplier (suppossedly) while the latter has a much lower TDP. IIRC like 120W vs 85W or something like that.

[Topcat]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

If worried about the PSU, bear in mind I ran one of these boards for over a year with 6x 10k HDD's on an Antec HE550. I had no issues at all. The CPU's are the "E" series, I've always been a fan of them. They run cool and use a lot less power.

[ratdude747]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

If worried about the PSU, bear in mind I ran one of these boards for over a year with 6x 10k HDD's on an Antec HE550. I had no issues at all. The CPU's are the "E" series, I've always been a fan of them. They run cool and use a lot less power.

Awesome. I'll use my 600w then.

[ratdude747]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

My first new part came in today... AMCC 9650 card with breakout cable. Since I bought that UIO card, I won't acutally need the card but I will need the cable. So, out came the zip ties

Some pics of my current progress:

Stripped out inside:



Man, my rig suddenly feels kinda gutless... (sorry, I had to)

I rebundled the PSU wires to roughly match the new guts. I kept the old dual PCI-E power setup as I may end up with a card that needs two six-pin power feeds (IDK). Luckily it looks like everything will fit.

Newly bundled SATA harness:





I think that looks a lot cleaner than the old setup.

Finally, the RAID card I won't be using:



I don't have a use for it so it will be a spare I guess. Unless topcat finds this post and wants it... and replies before I leave for STL tomorrow morning. (I'd put it up for sale but these cards sell so cheap these days...

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

There could be a show stopper here.

I was messing with one those PSU calculators and it's saying I need a 700W PSU... All I have is a 600W. Problem?

You probably don't need 700W if not overclocking...

[Topcat]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

AMCC 9650 card with breakout cable.

That interface is actually called miniSAS aka miniSAS cable. I went through that when I got a controller with that interface but without the cable. I didn't know what they were called in order to obtain them....so a little googling answered that after some naughty words.

Cya Sunday!

[ratdude747]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

That interface is actually called miniSAS aka miniSAS cable. I went through that when I got a controller with that interface but without the cable. I didn't know what they were called in order to obtain them....so a little googling answered that after some naughty words.

Cya Sunday!

Yeah, I had the same fun when setting up the 9650 in V4.1...

Cya... I'll bring the HDDs, you bring the board, lol.

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

the seasonic 600w is fine. 600w+ psus are more meant for dual gpu sli crossfire setups since a typical mainstream pc actually doesnt need more than 350-400w. a 600w dual gpu psu should have no problems with a dual cpu system instead unless u wanna go dual cpu + dual gpu which u said may not be possible with the board u're getting?

[ratdude747]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

the seasonic 600w is fine. 600w+ psus are more meant for dual gpu sli crossfire setups since a typical mainstream pc actually doesnt need more than 350-400w. a 600w dual gpu psu should have no problems with a dual cpu system instead unless u wanna go dual cpu + dual gpu which u said may not be possible with the board u're getting?

I was before actually... but the Opterons were pretty lean on TDP. Also I wasn't running fully buffered RAM.

[ratdude747]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

Made it back from missouri... with board, CPUs, RAM, and spare BIOS chip in hand. The latter is because Topcat had a dead one to pull from and he thinks I'm going to brick it trying an SLIC mod... more on that in a bit.

The bad news: I can't mount the board in the case yet. I don't have enough standoffs for the coolers to mount to... DOH! So for now, I'm running it on the bench:



The UIO card and USB 3.0 goodies aren't in yet either, but at least I have the coolers.

Anyway, it's bench tested fine (posting from it now) using the 9650 card and my old 7 install (also good for pulling my files; I may have to re-install to make the new RAID card work).

There is one notable change from the X5 and X6 series boards, and thats the use of Phoenix BIOS instead of award. That means SLIC modding takes a different process... but still doable!

I did just that... luckily, like the tyan boards, all I needed was the rom and a RW everything ACPI report... wham, bam, done. SLIC modded, no hotflashing or spare chips required!

Since it is phoenix I may look into custom splash images (like I did on the k8W in 3.0) although it boots so quick that its probably not worth the effort...

Anyway, that's all for now!

[ratdude747]

Re: Ratdude's main rig V5.0

USB3.0 gear and the UIO card came in.

I copied all of my hard to-find (read: used to be on my server till the WD green took a shit this weekend) and redid the array... and re-installed windows 7.

Here's the good and the bad about the Supermicro AOC-USAS-S8IR card:

Good:

-Adaptec chips, officially licensed (foil sticker included)
-Has a BBU option (which I have)
-Supports SAS and SATA I/II
-Seems pretty fast
-Has drivers in 7 from the start (SP1 at least).

Bad:
-Slow to boot up! Just like any Adaptec with the "kernel intializing" wait screen of doom.
-No provisions for front panel LEDs. It was clearly designed for people with backplanes, not people with internal drives. No, it isn't routed through the UIO slot either.

(Topcat, you wanted a report, there you go).

Seems like a pretty slick card once booted up. The LED part sucks but whatever.

I'll report on the USB 3.0 bit later.