Thinkpad Flashing Battery

[pentium]

Trying to recover from a royal fuck-up of a battery rebuild done by Radio Shack.
First time it went out it came back with a battery that gave a mere 45 minutes because of defective cells (but otherwise the battery was fine) so they sent it back at no cost.
Then they lost it. Then the guy rebuilding the batteries said he couldn't source a new board (???), then they lost it again when the guy was fired and now six months later I have the battery back. Jesus christ.
Problem is it went from three minute charge to 45 minute charge.....to total failure.
The Thinkpad blinks the battery light amber and the Thinkpad battery utility just spits me ERROR. You also can't run off the battery.

I pried the pack open and it's four 3.7v ICP-103450 Li-Ion cells and the charge controller. At this point I'm not sure if it's the batteries that are causing the error or if they went and completely fucked my controller. Does anyone have experience in Li-Ion rebuilds?

Edited: Photos.





Not sure if the three legged thing just below the red wire marked 5A SF is a fuse or not.

[Time2Retire]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

It could be a couple of things. If it's the board, then it is trash. Find a different battery on the internet.

Sometimes one of the cells goes bad. If you can find the spec sheet on the battery, it could help. I have a tablet where there is a low voltage cut-off. If any of the cells drops below this, nothing will charge. I was able to bring the voltage of the bad cell up using another (good) Li-ion cell, then it was able to charge normally. So, check the voltage of each individual cell.

[pentium]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

Find a different battery on the internet.

This is what I'm trying to avoid because a replacement battery for the TransNote starts at $150. You can't even find knockoffs on ebay. I have to go to Amazon.
If that part IS a fuse, perhaps that could also be cutting board power.
All four cells are sitting at 1.8-2.2v so none of them are totally dead.
As for a spec sheet Samsung has this which I think accurately represents my cells.

Edited: According to this That part IS a fuse and it seems to be blown. Where the heck do I source a new one?

[kaboom]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

All four cells are sitting at 1.8-2.2v so none of them are totally dead.

They're junk.

A certain cell fone battery scammer from California would "resell" used batteries as "new."

"Guaranteed new-old-stock, never used." Weell... they were used, very much so. Not only that, the contacts had marks on them from the other, mating, ones, in the device(s) they used to power, proving the seller a liar.

People would send their fones back to this "recycler" who'd offer "new batteries" with "free shipping." Sure could, too, since the batts were free.

The cells read from 1.25v to 1.8v. Dropped to nothing with a 10 ohm resistor.

3.0v is considered fully discharged, or very nearly so.

[domas]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

Well normally it is enough to change the cells when repairing the battery. Some people say you have to hack into the controller, some say you shouldn't. If it is cells issue, just change them. It seems that controller itself is defective.

I have heard that if the fuse blows on the controller board the firmware in the controller detects it and blocks the battery from charge permanently, cant find the information source now, but it might be a rumor as well.

I would supply the fuse from another controller if I was you. I personally have ~5 lappy batteries pulled apart in my electronics box at home. I would be happy to give you one for free, but shipping time across the pond would suck big time.

But now about the fuse. I have seen some 3-prong fuses on my controllers, of course in different package, but what about the white component under it that is covered in glue?

It does look fuse-like, doesn't it?

One more thing to check.. There is thermal sensor on 2 think wires on the board. But I have seen some batt packs with simple thermal protections inbetween cells. They looked like fuses and they would go open if overheated.. I used that pack without controller for my cordless drill, and I kept those thermal protection switches (call them what you want ). I assume they did not like the inductive kickback of the drill in long term, so at first one of them was toast, soon after that another. They have both gone kind-of-open, and they would carry enough current for me to test them with dmm (with a little of voltage drop) but they would not carry shit when put to load. So it took me some time to find out it was their fault.. Check them if you have some of them.

Good luck

[pentium]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

Right now I can't seem to find a source for these Samsung cells on ebay. I can find 3.7v 2000+ mAh but they're generic cylindrical cells.
I'll see if I can find a sacrifice battery to pull a new fuse from. I'm aware they are VERY sensitive to heat so this will be fun.

I have heard that if the fuse blows on the controller board the firmware in the controller detects it and blocks the battery from charge permanently, cant find the information source now, but it might be a rumor as well.

That would ruin my day. What in fucks name were they doing to blow the fuse?

[domas]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

I do have some batteries cylindrical cells, also salvaged from laptop batteries. That is the most popular solution. I had only one with 3 flat cells but double as long as yours (cells), i still use them for my cordless drill.

https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...d474a8d7f0.pdf page one to page two, just after the abstract
"Opening this fuse is a last resort, as it will render the pack permanently disabled. "

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...dern_batteries

" Batteries can release high power, and most packs include protection to safeguard against malfunction. The most basic safety device in a battery is a fuse that opens on high current. Some devices open permanently and render the battery useless; others are more forgiving and reset. The Polyswitch™ is such a re-settable device. It creates a high resistance on excess current and reverts back to the low ON position when the condition normalizes. A third method is a solid-state switch that measures the current and disconnects on excessive load conditions. All switching devices have a residual resistance during normal operation, which causes a slight increase in overall battery resistance and a subsequent voltage drop."

and there is something about jumpstarting them
http://hackaday.com/2011/08/01/who-k...-a-jump-start/

but now i think it was more about fuse being permanently dead, not the controller. But i definitely have read somewhere about the controller as well

[Time2Retire]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

For a spec sheet, I mean one for the battery pack, not the cells. Here is the one that is for my tablet:



For that battery pack, low voltage cut off says 2.8 volts. This means all of your cells are bad, but your pack may have different specs.

Here's two places that I found have a good variety of Li-ion cells:

http://www.all-battery.com/

http://www.batteryspace.com/

[pentium]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

Okay, so everyone has confirmed that all my cells must be defective.
We have also determined that replacing the fuse will also require the monitor circuit to be jump started.

Okay awesome. Now to source new cells.
I'm looking at both sites and everyone only seems to source the cylindrical cells which are completely useless.

[Time2Retire]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

I'm looking at both sites and everyone only seems to source the cylindrical cells which are completely useless.

You want the Li-ion Polymer cells:

http://www.batteryspace.com/polymerli-ioncells.aspx

http://www.all-battery.com/li-polymersinglecells.aspx

[pentium]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

BuMP.
I don't think I can use Li-Po cells in this.

Anyways, I bridged the fuse with a piece of solder and the controller came back to life after plugging the AC adapter in.




Unfortunately I STILL have not been able to source the new cells.

[Time2Retire]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

BuMP.
I don't think I can use Li-Po cells in this...

Unfortunately I STILL have not been able to source the new cells.

I found this:
http://www.all-battery.com/Li-ionPrismatic-30052.aspx

And also this:

http://www.alibaba.com/samsung-icp10...facturers.html

And from a Google-cache of Samsungsdi web site:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us

[Time2Retire]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

And a search of ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40

[pentium]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

I got an even cheaper idea.
Spent half an hour looking into what the cell is used in other than laptops and found camera batteries.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/High-Quality-...item5af5cb2cda

Same voltage, same current rating, same thickness, same width and if you add 4mm for the controller and perhaps a thermal fuse you have the same battery for $6 less. That I can see, the li-po versions are rated for between 1500-1800mAh. I'll see if the seller can better answer what's inside but otherwise I can buy four of those, extract the cells out of them and save $20-$40 buying JUST the cells. Might actually end up buying a dozen more to recell other stuff.

[Time2Retire]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

The site I linked to before has a cheaper one, and it has leads on it. It is a bit thicker.

http://www.all-battery.com/Li-ionPri...-30052-01.aspx

[Time2Retire]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

That site says it is a replacement for a UBP001. I see Mouser has something:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...lagTrMaRvpaQ==

[pentium]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

Those prices are still $10 per cell before shipping.

[Time2Retire]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

I got an even cheaper idea.
Spent half an hour looking into what the cell is used in other than laptops and found camera batteries.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/High-Quality-...item5af5cb2cda

Same voltage, same current rating, same thickness, same width and if you add 4mm for the controller and perhaps a thermal fuse you have the same battery for $6 less. That I can see, the li-po versions are rated for between 1500-1800mAh. I'll see if the seller can better answer what's inside but otherwise I can buy four of those, extract the cells out of them and save $20-$40 buying JUST the cells. Might actually end up buying a dozen more to recell other stuff.

Just buy one to check it out.

[pentium]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

I bought one as a sample and I'm curious about another pack which is rated 2200mAh which is another capacity I know the103450's came in. I'll find out in a month when it comes in. :P

[Time2Retire]

Re: Thinkpad Flashing Battery

Good luck!

I just noticed the battery life in my Samsung laptop seems to be getting shorter. It's batteries are built-in, so I will have to take it apart just to see what's in it.

A search says this is what I'll find:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-QX410-.../dp/B0091OX4OK