Random Power Shutdowns

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Thanks willawake

I have a pci-express card (256MB RADEON x700 tV/dvi PCI-Express) but can't see any connector on it to match the plug.

System is certainly a lot quieter with the new psu, can hardly tell that it's running.

Since getting the new psu been trying to read up on the new ATX 12V 2.0 format. I think it's something to do with a clean supply to the cpu and video card but not sure.

If you can post a link to something I'd be grateful.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

The PCI-E power conector is only for more higher end cards like GF6800GT, GF7800 - 7900 etc. The PCi-e bus will deliver a lot of more power than the AGP (therefore the extra 4 pins for ATX conector). Thus even a GF6600gt can work on it w/o external power.

The main difference on ATX 2.0 PSu is lower ripple current (:noise) on 12v rail and in generall the most cirticall rails is the 12v ons (thighter reulation are cut down from 10% to 5%), whereas the former ATX spec`S are more concerned at the 3,3v & 5v line. Behind that, the lower load on the 5 an 3,3v rails does hav some impact on the regulation side of the PSu. Most PSU`S do only regulate one rail. The other will follow the load. Thus the older PSU`S regulated the lower voltage rails, the 12v followed it. This desing will have some problems if only loaded on the 12v rail. Thus most actuall ATX2.0 PSu`S are regulating either the 12v rail or both.

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Not good, just had shutdown after about 30 hours running. However, did happen in the midst of a severe thunderstorm although no other electrical devices were affected i.e needed resetting.

Suppose the next step is to push and poke on the board to see if I can reproduce the fault. After that not sure what to do next as I'm not too keen in chasing money in the hope I will find the problem. Also not sure now if it's possible to buy the A8N_SLI now so I don't have to do a complete reinstall.

Could turn out to be cheaper to ditch the system and get a new one.

Strange again that Windows started up as normal whereas I would have expected it to say it hadn't shutdown properly and go through the CHKSDSK routine. I'm sure this is pointing to the problem in someway but goodness knows what.

Other than using ASUS probe (which unfortunately I had forgotten to start recording) is there any routine I can run that checks the overall temperature of the system?

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Forgot to say I have tapped out all over the motherboard, including ICs, capacitors etc and not been able to produce fault.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

IMHO w2k &wxp do not use the chkdsk feature that often like w98 and me Thus it should be ok if it starts normaly. BTW have you installed either the dualcore hotfix from AMD or ? Usually one of those is necesarry for stable operation of an 3800 DC, but some people experienced some crashes too if both patches where applied.
Make shure you have the proper drivers installed, according to ASUS Tec you should follo this advice if using 1014 Bios:

A8N-SLI Bios version 1014
Please do read the description before updating BIOS
To avoid crashing file system, please do update the chipset driver to below version prior to this Bios.
For WinXP 32bit system, please download and update chipset drivers V6.65 or later
For WinXP 64bit system, please download and update chipset drivers V6.65 or later
For Win2k/2003 32bit system, please download and update chipset drivers V6.66 or later
For Win2003 64bit system, please download and update chipset drivers V6.66 or later

[kc8adu]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

try running the box from a live linux like knoppix.
that will tell you if its a problem with your windows.

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

This topic seems to be going on for a long time, I hope it's not causing any problems to anyone because of this. Please feel free to stop the topic if you feel there is nothing else to add.

Is this the correct url for the AMD dual core hotfix Dual Core Hotfix.

Do I also need the AMD dual-core driver AMD Dual Core Driver . Found mention of both here Dual-core problems and crashing

For WinXP 32bit system, please download and update chipset drivers V6.65 or later

As regards 1014 BIOS.

When the system was originally supplied (also BIOS 1014) it came with blank drives and I installed the drivers from the supplied ASUS installation disc. When the motherboard was replaced it also had 1014 and because I had to replace the SATA primary master (it had been damaged as a result of the constant crashing) I used an image file taken shortly after the original XP install.

I don't know if either motherboard came with BIOS 1014 by default or if the supplier had to flash the BIOS to work with the 3800+CPU.

I HAVE NOT THEREFORE INSTALLED ANY UPDATED CHIPSET DRIVERS AT ANY TIME.

How can I check which chipset drivers I have?

Been searching the ASUS site and haven't found a link yet to the chipset drivers.

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

try running the box from a live linux like knoppix.
that will tell you if its a problem with your windows.

Not heard of this but looking at the knoppix site it says it's a bootable Live system on CD or DVD. Does this mean that I can boot my system from the CD/DVD much as I would have in the old days with a Windows ME floppy and just run it from the disc with no installation?

[davmax]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Drivers for A8N-SLI can be found here:

http://support.asus.com/download/dow...Language=en-us

Use the search and enter. Motherboard: 939 : A8N-SLI then select search.

At the A8N-SLI selection click on Other. You will see the chipset driver listed with some instructions in RED that advise what to do the avoid system crashes( this may be your problem)

[davmax]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Gonzo highlighted the web site statement that bios 1014 can only be loaded with 6.65 drivers. Web site statements imply that the drivers should be 6.65 before updating to 1014. Try installing 6.65 first. If this does not solve the problem you will need to meet the stated requirement by installing bios 1008 the drivers 6.65 and then back to 1014.

This latter process means the following:
1. Uninstall your Radeon driver in Add/Remove programs
2. Uninstall motherboard drivers also Add/Remove section.
3. Flash bios to 1008
4. Install 1014 drivers
5. Flash bios 1014
6. Install Radeon driver

Seems to be a fussy motherboard.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

The link is correct, but i would prefer the MS dualcore fix linked on the same page a few post`s later. I would install the usuall AMD driver (linked on the same entry) prior to this, but not the AMD dc fix.
I personally (sadly ) do not have an X2, but i build a system wich was showing the same random crashes (only after a longer time, thus i haven`t noticed it during my usual burn in testing). On this i installed the MS fix, the AMD driver and the lates Nforce4 chipset drivers from Nvidia`s website. Since then i haven`t got it back

The usuall order of driver installation is first chipset ( in your case NV4) driver, GFX driver and finally anything else. The AMD driver`s do not depend from everything else.
May be this will help you, but as usuall your milage can vary .
Don`t feel guilty abouth this topic, it will probably endure untill your rig is fixed, you trashed it or the contributors are tired to answer (or clueless, but there are a lot things wich can be wrong on sutch a system). However, if you manage to get it stable, don`t forget to pinpoint the solution here.

EDIT: i noticed your having running a X700 GFX. If all the things we suggestet yet won`t work for you, may be lowering the PCi-E bus speed to abouth 75mhz can solve some issues with them. But i do not expect that this is your problem.

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Just a quick reply. I am still running the system 24/7 to see whether the last shutdown was for some inexplicable reason caused by the thunderstorm we had at that time even though nothing else seems to have been.

As regards the BIOS I have checked the ASUS CD that came with the motherboard and the file list shows the chipset driver is v6.65 and this is confirmed by Everest Home Edition that shows CK8-04. From this I take it that the BIOS came at that level from the factory so no point in going back to an earlier version.

I was looking through the ASUS forums yesterday and came across a thread by someone having exactly the same problem on the same board. Posted a reply explaining my situation just to see if anyone from ASUS tech might reply and got the following response from an ordinary member I think (no indication it was an ASUS person).

You should list the componets in your system completely(note I hadn't done that).

I would say it's still a power supply problem. 500 watts is pretty slim for this board. I'm using a 550 Antec and I consider that a minimum

There are a number of posts about random power shutdowns with various boards, including the one I have and the stock answer seems to be a power problem or over heating.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Well, that is the usuall dumb minded non skiller answer i would say (dn`t be angry abouth those people, it is just marketing). I haven`t seen any rig wich would pull more than abouth 250w continiously. The usuall AMD 64 box will not exceed 150 to 200w, depending what kind of gfx is used. I would agree, that most problems with shutdowns are PSU or heat problems, but in your case i would certainley rule the power / PSU out. On this forum there are people asking if their 330w psu will suite their needs on usuall a64 system, and at least in the case of a decent brand like Seasonic the generall opinion was that is way more than needed. It is true, that there are some boards like DFI ones, wich are pitty abouth the psu choice. But his is not why they arent capable of delivering enough power, but it is abouth DFI and others has not followed the ATX standard regarding some technicall details like inrushcurrents, overloading new ATX 2.0 PSU`S 5 &3,3v sec tin etc. Those prolbems can usually be cured in using a hgher wattage model, as those are more immune to those things. But nevertheless there is no personal pc rig pulling near 500w from a psu on everydays work today. IMHO your Asrock board was never afecktd from any of the above mentioned issue.
I personally have had a 350w 20€ Fortron OEM PSU handy as i was building my new (current) rig. If i haven`t got my current Amacrox Free Earth 500w for a steal at a egay auktion (and therefore lost my control), i fore shure would have build it in.

BTW: have you ever installed NV lan manager? i mean this thing wich is to controll the NV4 firewall etc. ? this crappy thing is known for crashing any system in the way you mentioned. AFAIK NV has failed to fix that buggy thing up to now.

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Just wanted to update everyone on the current situation. Since the inital power shutdown with the fsp PSU I have had my system running 24/7 since last Wednesday, in excess of 260 hours continuous running under load, without failing.

This would seem to prove that the QTEC was the cause of the problem. To date there has been no indication that the fsp isn't coping with the demands of my system, contrary to the comments on the ASUS forum saying 500 watts is pretty slim for this board. I'm using a 550 Antec and I consider that a minimum

All I'm hoping now is that when I finally turn it off later today there aren't any problems when it's next powered up.

Incidentally, seeing as how the system failed initially with the fsp installed during a storm, how likely is it that the electrostatic given out by the storm, there was some severe lightning, could shut the system down even though the mains electric wasn't affected? I live in a rural area and we are fed by overhead cables and are often affected by mains failures especially during storms.

I am now writing to my supplier explaining whats happened with the PSU and requesting a refund of the £50(GBP) charge and a contribution toward the cost of the fsp. Time will tell if they do the honourable thing.

Have got one other issue to resolve. According to Maxtor:

Most high speed hard drives are designed for an operational temperature of between 5 and 55°C (131°F). Ambient case temperatures above 55°C (131°F) or below 5°C (41°F) can decrease drive reliability, performance, and product life

I've been running SpeedFan and this shows my two SATA drives running at 4-5 °C higher than that generally e.g 55-59°C. I have ordered a 2 Fan 3.5" Cooling Kit. Not sure how this will fit on the drive because of the way the drives fit into the Shark case on a tray, but as they are so cheap thought I'd give it a try. The fan kits is rated at about 4.32W - 0.36Amp so shouldn't be too much strain on the psu.

If that doesn't work I'll need to think of something else to do to cool the drives so may need some help with that.

Thanks to everyone so far for the help, much appreciated.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Well, as said from others, you should be fine with 500w, and any immagable ammount of fans won`t alter this situation in any way.

For drive cooling, i usually mount one or more air intake fans, in the lower front of the cases, in front of the hdd cages. Most cases are prepared for an intake fan in that way. This improves air flow and case cooling too, without mutch additionall noise ( i usually put the fans at the 5 v rail with some molex >fan adapters). You don`t need mutch airflow for cooling hdd`s, the aim is only to move the air a little around and you will significantly lower the temp. There are some very cheap hdd coolers out there, they are getting mounted directly on the hdd. usually those are from very mediocre quality, thus the fan will fail after a very very short time. Beware of them.

The mentioned temperature range is not the range, where your getting the most MTBF hours. For maxtor, 55°c is ok, as the warranty is only two or three years. I leanred from the some Maxtor and similar datasheets, that 42°c or lower is the temp you want your hdd running on. I personally prefer even lower temps.

The Shutdown could easily caused by an overvoltage spike or by a short brownout. The hold up time for your psu is something abouth 17ms, thus an very short brown out will cause an shutdown. Most other apliances are not that sensitive for that short oulses. E.g. any lightbulb is way too slow to show it. Even your eyes are probably not fast enough to recognize it. Thus i think if you experience no problems the next weeks, you should be fine.

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Thanks again.

Should not my anti-surge protector have taken care of any over voltage spike or could this be failing?

The Shark case comes with dual 12cm front and back cooling fans. The front of the inner case, the Shark case has a door, has a grill and there are vents and a grill of sort on the door itself presumably to allow air to flow in when closed.

Point taken about the hdd coolers but as I say they are cheap so worth a try to see what happens, assuming I can fit them that is.

In the longer term I might have to think about adding some additional cooling specifically for the SATA drives (I think the cooling within the case itself is OK) but not sure at this stage how I would go about that.

I probably have a couple of spare fans in my bits and pieces box, it's how to fit them for best effect. I might even just jury rig them up in some way and see what results I get.

Fingers crossed that everything runs smoothly from now on.