Random Power Shutdowns

[gonzo0815]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Why considering an Antec if it is way more expensive like some other solid performer like FSP and Seasonic?

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Thanks for the latest inputs. Thought I would take the time to read through all the posts again as I think I am the situation in which I have to accept the need to buy another PSU and to then decide which one, more of that later.

Thinking things through uit does strike me as strange that prior to sending the system back the power shutdowns were quite frequent, but at the moment they seem more widely dispersed. However as soon as I wrote that the system shutdown, this after about 124 hours of running. My wife's system remained on so I have eliminated the anti-surge protector as a source of the problem.

I have been running ASUS probe for about three days and looking at the History it shows the following for the time the system shutdown

at 11:24:30

Temperature
CPU 32C/89F
MB 40C/104F

Fan
CPU 3443
Chipset 6026
Chassis 1250

Voltage
+12V 11.776
+5V 4.972
3.3V 3.296
Vcore 1.344

I also checked Event Viewer in Windows and couldn't see anything suggesting an application requesting shutdown.

To pick up on gonzo0805 post of yesterday. prior to sending the system back I ran all number of tests, these included the Maxtor drive

diagnostics, windows memory tester, mem86, prime95 and sisoft sandra burn-in test using settings I gleaned from various forums. Non of these showed any fault/problem.

When I sent the system back I passed this info onto the supplier expecting that their tech support would take things on a step and perhaps run some test gear over the system or try replacement bits and pieces to see what happened. Instead they just ran some of the test I'd already run for 4-5 days (not sure if 24/7), the system didn't fail therefore no fault and £50(GBP) thank you very much. In effect that was a waste of time as they didn't do anymore than I'd done already.

So we are back to replacing the PSU as the easiest option and with fingers crossed that it provides the solution. If it doesn't then it's what to try next. As I said the memory passed all the tests and davmax has suggested it's unlikely to be the cpu so the next item would have to be the motherboard.

This was supplied new in April to replace the original after the pCI slots failed. What's the chances of two ASUS boards failing within weeks of each other???

Once I start to go down that road then cost becomes a real factor, how much do I spend on essentially a poke and hope process? When I replace the PSU I will take a look at the motherboard and see if there is anything obvious.

So now to the psu. from all that's been written replacing the QTEC is universally agreed as being a wise thing to do. Looking at the suggestions the Seasonic and AKASA CA-014 are too expensive. I might justify that sort of expenditure if I had a working system and just wanted to improve the psu because of my usage but I have to consider needing to spend out more afterwards if it doesn't solve the problem.

So that leaves the Blue Storm CA-005 unless anyone is going to suggest something else within the same price range?

Don't think there is any point now in my continuing to run the system 24/7 until the new psu is installed as I know it's still failing. I will however try and use it as much as I can but not do anything that's likely to have catastrophic effects if the system shuts down.

It's still bugging as to why Windows starts up as normal after a shutdown and doesn't go through the CHDSK process!!

[arneson]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

http://support.asus.com/download/dow...Language=en-us
You are probably quite familiar with the above site but I posted it just in case you have not been here to look for a bios problem of chipset issue.
One bad thing about messing with a bios update is the risk of a shutdown while flashing, so if you were to get an update read first to see what if any mention there is of fixes before applying it.
Sound like your very savvy so you may know that keeping firmware up to date can be as or more important than the operating system, and this applies to everything, burners, cameras, video, even nics.
This is just a general post, it may not apply to your problem, but it may.

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Just a quick reply to say that I was aware of the ASUS site. Have to say that ASUS Support isn't a patch on Soltek, they seem to make it hard to get what you want and even getting a job number doesn't guarantee a reply. By comparison Soltek Support are available via email and reply usually within 48 hours.
My BIOS is already at 1014 which is the latest.
Had another power shutdown about four hours after the one this morning.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

I think the blue storm is quite a decent PSu. Not the top notch in efiiciency like the Seasonic s12 series, but absolut good choice. Hard to beat the price.

I was aware, that you already have tested your rig with Prime95. Now my suggestion was to alter the settings in that way, that it uses the vast ammount of memory. This will cause windows to heavily use the swap space on the HDD (if you have some) wich will extend the testing capabilities of Prime 95 to the whole system (e.g. HDD. SATA cables conectors etc.).
Another thing i usually do with randomly crashing rigs is to swap the board, hdd,GFX & pSU from the case and let it run on the desk. this usually rules out any short or bbad mounting problems (e.g. if case board and GFX won`t fit absolutely acurate....etc.).

If the rig is running fine, than i rebuild the system, install board, GFX and fasten the srews then. This will ashure no mechaincally force on GF or GF port. If than i let it runing with closed case, if problems occure i let it running with open case.

Finaly i would suggest to try the game "cal of duty" (COD). This game is far more sensitive to memory problems than any other memory test (e.g. memtest, windows ram diagnostic etc.). I had several Medion units, wich are rock stable in any testprogramm or non 3d app, but in COD they always where crashing after very short time. It turned out that not the GFX was the problem, the ugly memory was it.

BTW: what is your memory Comad rate? lock at the BIOS setup and change it to 2 if possibly. This option is known for giving some trouble.

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Hi again

BTW: what is your memory Comad rate? lock at the BIOS setup and change it to 2 if possibly. This option is known for giving some trouble.

Sorry don't understand that. Took a look at the BIOS but couldn't see anything like it.

Been trawling through a lot of web pages and they do seem to confirm that QTEC are poorly thought off, that's being polite. Lots of threads about restarts, failing to boot up, and general power problems etc. Even a couple similar to my own problem where there have been random shutdowns but these seem to have happened whilst playing a demanding game or such like, which I don't do.

Also lots of info on the poor Wattage produce by QTEC products, most seem to think that the 650W is unlikely to hit 400W and thats only if it's a good unit, usually 350W seems regarded as the norm.

General opinion is they are one of, if not the worse PSU on the market. All this makes me angry that the tech support didn't even look at the PSU when the system went back.

Was giving great thought as to whether spending £60 on the FSP, that's with postage, was justified, or whether I could just get any old cheap PSU just to see what happens. But having read all the threads that doesn't seem a good idea so I am going to buy the FSP Sparkle AX500-A Blue Storm 500W ATX2.0 PSU (CA-005-SK) and keep my fingers crossed!!

Just one point, at the moment I power my two SATA drives from the IDE connector together with the other Maxtor & Western Digital IDE drives. On top of this I have my DVD-RW. I'm having to use splitters on the IDE power cable to feed the cables to where I want them and provide additional plugs. I assume this isn't a problem?

During the course of my reading I came across three utilities for testing Speedfan 4.2, HDD Thermometer and OCCT and I'm running these. Have just noticed that HDD Thermometer is showing a warning that my Maxtor drives are running over the warning level. The 160GB which is Primary SATA is showing 57C, the Secondary SATA 56C and the maxtor IDE 51C. Don't know what these should run at so don't know if that is an issue. There is the facility in HDD Thermometer to set the warning level. The Core Temperature is showing between 46-49C.

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Should have said that I took the opportunity to look at the motherboard and although I'm no expert, without taking it completly out of the case, there didn't seem to be any evidence of caps leaking or blowing

[gonzo0815]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

I doubth that yu will find anything on your board, besides it is equiped with Nichicons HM (N). Well 57 °c isn`t a tempertature i would leave my HDD for long, but this is only because of longtime impact ( the MTBF time will certaily degrade at any temp above the usuall 46°c) but as your rig is not that old it should not be the problem yet.
The comand rate is a speciall mmory option, availiabl in most BIOS Setups. You can chekt this with the programm Everest, lock at the picture i provided. Lock at your manual, there are variouse names for that option. Higher (2) is a little slower in some synthetic benchmarkes, but not in real world.

Don`t be to harsh with those technican, no company will pay his time for locking after some intermitant problems like that, wich can easily immaginated by ususall user...... There are no magic tools out to diagnose this. I know sutch problems from the other perspective.

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Thanks again for an informative reply.

Are the Nichicons HM (N) the capacitors used on my board and if so what makes them good? If it's not could you explain a bit more, I like to learn from people like you so I can help others if the need arises.

As for the HDD temp, is the 46°c you mention a standard even for a SATA drive, I was trying to find out what this should be. From when I first got the system I found the SATA drives in particular seemed to run a lot hotter (the other Maxtor is one I've had for some time). Could it just be that Maxtor drives run hotter?
The Shark case has two large fans , one in the from the other in the rear and a mesh on one side so it's well ventilated.
Have Everest Home Edition so will take a look.
The new psu is now on order and should arrive Monday. Wll be interested to see what happens.
As for the technicians, I would agree if I hadn't sent them all the info on the testing I'd done and the results and explained my level of "experise".

[gonzo0815]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Well, i duno if your board is actually equiped with Nichicons HM (N), but there are a certain production volumen of them, wich are faulthy (take a quick search in this forum and you will get the picture story ;-)). Ironically, Nichicons is one of the best cap brands despite that.

Maxtors are usually hother than other brands, at least the IDE ones i own. You can lock at the datasheet of the particular model, IMHo any hdd manufacturer provides this on the their website. There are sutch thing like failure rate, MTBF wich is the statistically time after then a failure will occure. And this highly depend on the ambient temperature. The normal temperature in a pc is assumed with abouth 45°c. Anything above will probably increase the war &tear of anything in the rig.

I mount usually severall fans right into the lower front of my systems (blow in), directly before the hdd cage. I usually do not use HDD`S => 7200rpm without active fan cooling. Most OEM system`s does.
In my rig, i use 4 x 80mm fans @4,8v. This provides enough cooling for my HDD`S (1x Samsung Sata2 and 1x PATA Seagate both 7200rpm @ 30 to40°c max) and for my whole system. It is the suggested cooling / air venting approach from AMD. My system is very very silent, even my AC Freezer `s fan is @5v, thus no loud fan, but an AMD 64 3200 oced to 2600Mhz wihtout any issue.

[arneson]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

It's not pretty when a hard drive overheats.
You can tell how crispy they are by removing the drive circuit board and looking for
the scorch marks. Certainly I'm not recommending anyone do this, unless like me, you have stacks of bad drives and want to play.
Your PS replacement is a good move and a nice thing to have regardless.
Just want to mention that in the past I've seen random shutdown from a board mounted too tight, intermittant short to back plane, just an example.
If you could physically make her screw up with a gentle push of a chip or connector that would also give a clue as a problem.

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Thanks.

New PSU will be with me on Monday. Perhaps before I fit I could gently (& nervously) push down on the board, wearing suitable anti-static protection of course, to see if anything happens.

I suppose it's always possible that when the replacement board was fitted it wasn't done 100% although I would hope a "professional" would be wary of such a thing.

I probably won't post again until after the psu is installed (unless pushing down causes it to collapse) and I've had the chance to run the system 24/7 for a few days. Will have to run it for at least 8 days as that's the maximum time so far it's survived.

Thanks to everyone for their contributions so far and fingers crossed that the new psu does the trick.

[gonzo0815]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

You have a high opinion on professionals. I think most professionalls have not mutch time (=money), but they have to work with the same problems. So i am not shure, if a self build rig, wich is done with some plasure and time will not be far better build.

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Hi, sorry to come back so soon. have got the fsp installed and the system running. First thing is that there is an additional 4 pin plug where the main (22 pin) power plug is. My motherboard has a 24 pins power socke but the QTEC only had 22 pins. I have not connected the additional plug and all seems well so what are the extra four pins for? Also there is an additional six pin plug with yellow/black leads. What is that for please?

May be my imagination but the drives are running cooler than I quoted before. At the moment after 33 mins running the two SATA drives are showing 48C on the primary master and just touched 50C on the SATA secondary master but Speedfan is showing the temperature rising. Could the cooler running, if maintained, indicate a problem with the QTEC?

One final question. Wanted to test the QTEC out of the system and plugged into the main and switched on but the fans aren't running and there aren't any readings. Is it possible to run independently or does it have to be connected to the PC?

Thanks

[arneson]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Old Wrinkly, you will have to change that to, New Smooth now.
And the power supply will not power alone.

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Sorry, don't understand the first part of your reply, which additional plug are you talking about? Can you explain a bit more please?

Thanks for info about the QTEC psu, though that might be the case but wanted to make sure. Can I could fit it to any PC to test? I have an old one, possibly P2/P3 (but would need to check) I could fit it to temporarily>

[willawake]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

fortron bluestorm has 20+4 atx connector which snaps together so use it on your 24 pin motherboard atx connector.
the 6 pin black/yellow is for pci express

[gonzo0815]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Most new boards are now ATX 2.0, wich means that they are using for most sections the 12v rail and have 4 additionall wires to supply the higher currents probably needed by pci-e gfx and powerhungry multcore cpu`s. It is well known, that 24 pin boards could become unstable if used with 20pin PSu.
To safely test your old psu, you shuld have a seriouse load for it handy. There is not mutch gained if you will put a old not very dmanding system on it. PSU`S must tested with a substantial load. Every else is wasted time &effort.

[old_wrinkly]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

Thanks, have connected the additional 4 wire plug to the ATCX power connector. Can't see anything on my board that looks like it would take the PCI-Express plug.

Should I expect to see any differences now I am using the 24 pin connector, or is it all transparent.

As regards the old PSU, just want to check that all fans were/are working not to actually test the unit.

[willawake]

Re: Random Power Shutdowns

i think you should be completely stable now.
the pci-express plug is for pci-express video card.