Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

[jack black]

Hi,

I'm new here and still learning. My son's PC was acting up so I popped the hood and spotted a bad cap near the CPU (P4 3.4 GHz MSI MB).
Proud of my diagnostic skills I ordered replacement caps from an online seller advertising "Chemi-Con is the first class capacitor made in Japan.
KY Series Minimize ESR 6.3V 3300UF Capacitor Grade A monitor, Motherboard or power supplies high-frequency low-impedance electrolytic capacitors". Sounded like the perfect thing for me. I even checked some websites claiming Chemi-Con is good.

When I got the caps in the mail they looked awfully similar to the one that popped. Sure enough the defective one is UCC KZG and the ones I got are UCC KY. Now, I did dig deeper and looks like KY have higher ESR. I'm not sure if they will work in place of KZG. Should I try?

Is there something else to protect the caps from the heat of nearby CPU heatsink? The case has plenty of ventilation otherwise.

Many thanks!

[mockingbird]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

Chemi-Con is the first class capacitor made in Japan.

Chemicon *does* make good stuff, but KZG is not recommended nor is KZJ.

KY is NOT a suitable replacement for KZG. You need Rubycon MBZ, Nichicon HM, or Samxon GC. The seller you bought from on here I believe also sells Samxon products.

[Toasty]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

KY = ESR 0.035Ω - 1900mA ripple
KZG = ESR 0.012Ω - 2800mA ripple

KZG are known for heat fails. KY is not a proper replacement.

Best bet for that area of the motherboard with that CPU (onboard heater ) is to use polymer caps. You can halve the capacitance and still be fine.

If not, these in order from top to bottom with the best specs at the top. All will work in that area:

Nichicon HZ
Samxon GA^^

Nichicon HN
Rubycon MCZ ^^
Samxon GC^^
UCC KZJ**

Nichicon HM
Rubycon MBZ^^
Samxon GD^^
Panasonic FJ**
Panasonic FL**
Sanyo WG**

^^ = available from here at badcaps.net
** = not available from suppliers in USA

Stay clear of eBay caps until you ask and get advice here first about a seller.

Some pics of your board and that area are also appreciated.

Toast

[jack black]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

Many thanks for the replies!

I'm very tempted to install the KY as the boy is anxious to play his games. Will that fry the MB or CPU?

I'll look for polymer ones in the meantime. Why polymers are not used routinely? Price? I can actually see a few caps in the MB that look like polymers.

What polymer specs I should shoot for to replace 3300 uF 6.3V?

[Toasty]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

You are replacing just one? You can't do just one. You need to replace all the same type caps around the CPU. I asked for pics to guide you and pose questions. Please provide.

Toast

[bigbeark]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

Many thanks for the replies!

I'm very tempted to install the KY as the boy is anxious to play his games. Will that fry the MB or CPU?

I doubt it's going to fry anything, but I'll defer to the experts. You are a lot more likely to fry something with the defective cap(s) in place.

I assume those 6.3 3300UF are 10mm can size. A lot of the better-rated series may be 12.5mm at 3300uf. A quick check of this site shows you can get Ruby MBZ in the 10mm can size. I would suggest these.

I had to use Panasonic NHG on my Abit board because I could not find 6.3v 3300uf in 10mm size. (The KY is a much better cap than the NHG). My Abit board works perfectly. but I will be replacing the NHGs when the better caps I ordered arrive.

[Toasty]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

Polymer - Again this depends on which caps we are discussing. Right next to the CPU, you will have height issues. If they are the CPU VRM caps, then I think you can go with 4v poly's there. Perhaps even 2.5v, as the Vcore for the P4 3.2GHz is 1.6v. That gives a 55% buffer to over-voltage, which is well within tolerances.

You can halve the capacitance, so 1500-1800uF is good.

Nichicon series' LE, LG, & R5 (FPCAP !!) are all available in 1500uF from mouser.com, and one in 1800uF. I hate to divert you from badcaps, but the polymers here only go up to 820uF and I wouldn't recommend that great a drop in overall capacitance.

Toast

[jack black]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

You are replacing just one? You can't do just one. You need to replace all the same type caps around the CPU. I asked for pics to guide you and pose questions. Please provide.

Toast

I'm replacing 2. One bulging and one visually OK near by. The other caps near CPU appear to be polymer ones. There are a few more UCC caps in the MB, but smaller and away from CPU.

[Toasty]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

Pictures PLEASE. I said it nice now, again.

[jack black]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

OK here are the pictures.
First the bulging cap (out of focus though) and second a surprize: burned power connection.



I put the new caps in and no POST (just like before).

Possibilities:
1. KY are not good for this job.
2. Soldering screw up.
3. MB toast.
4. CPU toast.
5. PS toast.
6. All of the above

Not sure which but I'm starting to look for replacement mobo, unless someone has better ideas.

[Toasty]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

No boot because no CPU power from burned connection.

In first pic, the 2 caps across at the upper right look "puffy". All KZG caps on the board should be replaced. Even those "far away" from the CPU.

The 12v CPU connector and matching PSU connector need to be replaced. Some kind soul here might even send you one off a junk mobo and PSU, if ya ask nice like.

The poly's around CPU look to be OSCONs and they're fine. The Panasonics in the foreground are FJ, perhaps? Usually also okay.

Toast

[jack black]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

Good point. Will try another PS tomorrow.

[Toasty]

Re: MSI 7143 ver. 2.0 aka: 915P Neo-L

So others can find this -

Motherboard: MSI 7143 ver. 2.0
PCB Version: 2B

aka: 915P Neo-L

http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=pr...=1&prod_no=216

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

Good point. Will try another PS tomorrow.

You need to clean-up/fix the pins on the mobo side too.

If you are lucky the plastic will slide up and off making the job easier.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

Chemicon *does* make good stuff, but KZG is not recommended nor is KZJ.

KY is NOT a suitable replacement for KZG. You need Rubycon MBZ, Nichicon HM, or Samxon GC. The seller you bought from on here I believe also sells Samxon products.

HEY!
You're getting better at this!

[jack black]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

Update:

removed the burned plastic from mobo connection, plugged up another PS and the PC works (except for sound card silent now).

Tested the old PS with different PC and it doesn't work. I took it apart and no bulging caps inside. Maybe it's the bad contact at the plug?

It's possible the UCC KZG caps were not the problem here and the UCC KY caps seem to work OK for a time being at least.

Thanks everyone for the expert help and handholding during my first MB repair!

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

It's possible the KZG weren't bad but they are well proven to be a problem cap with high failure rates. Unfortunately they don't always bloat when they go bad.
[Very similar to OST in failure rate and mode.]

- The KY have higher ESR so there will be more noise in the circuit [less Ripple removed] which can lead to the system being erratic and unstable.

- The KY have a lower Ripple rating [which is -sort of- like the watt rating on a resistor]. Caps pass Ripple to ground and that creates heat inside the cap. If the circuit's Ripple is more than the cap is rated for the cap's operation will overheat the cap internally. That will shorten the life of the cap. Sometimes dramatically. Down grading the Ripple from KZG to KY is a huge downgrade and wouldn't expect KY to last very long unless the KZG were over-spec'ed. [I wouldn't count on the KZG being over-spec'ed. KZG are the correct -grade- of cap to use there. They are just unreliable]

10x20mm KZG has 2550 mA Ripple and .013 ohm ESR.
10x20mm KY has 1400 mA Ripple and .046 ohm ESR.
- A HUGE downgrade. [45% less Ripple and over 3x more ESR.]
I would not expect KY to last very long or for the system to be stable.

And now you why it's best to compare new and old cap's specs -before- choosing replacements.
Is okay.
Just about everyone makes that mistake when they are a cap newbie.

- AND IT'S RUNNING AGAIN! - Congrats!
.

[jack black]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

The KY is a temporary fix. I will go ahead and test the cap temp with IR thermometer tonight.

I bet the bulging KZG has higher ESR than new KY. But I have no ESR meter and no way to check.

In the meantime I'm looking for polymer caps. The largest I could find in UCC catalog is this: http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/138...a152mjc0g.html

[yyonline]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

In the meantime I'm looking for polymer caps. The largest I could find in UCC catalog is this: http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/138...a152mjc0g.html

That's a surface mount capacitor. You want a through-hole capacitor. Assuming 10mm diameter you can use this:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=565-3229-ND

[MixMasta]

Re: Is UCC KY suitable replacement for UCC KZG in MB?

Oh yeah you are going to install a SMD cap eh? Good luck with that. Look, since you apparently have already had a problem with finding the right caps, why don't you just buy them from this website or the thecapking website and stop wasting your time and overpaying?