ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

[fz_jim]

Hi all!

New to the forum, stumbled across it a day or two ago looking for solutions to my flickering SyncMaster display issue... which I found here, thank you all very much. So, I decided to join.

I'm going to get right to it.

I have a 1994 vintage Sony 32" Trinitron. From what I've been reading here they appear to have somewhat of a reputation LOL.

Mine has actually given me 16 years of troublefree operation, absolutely flawless the entire time. Just the other day however it stopped working.

When I power it on, I get the obligatory relay click. The degaussing coil does its thing like normal, and there appears to be high voltage, judged by feel around the front of the screen.

No raster at all, the screen stays completely black. Not a scanned black but a no video at all black, and there's no sound. I can't tell if the horizontal oscillator is running, I have hearing damage and can't hear frequencies that high. If I remember correctly it was pretty quiet to begin with.

The standby light flashes constantly, there's no indicated code, and left to itself the set will stay in this condition indefinitely. It doesn't eventually time-out or shut itself down.

I'm leaning toward power supply but admittedly it's been YEARS since I've worked on a TV. And to improve things I have no o-scope, no signal generators, and no schematics for the set. So basically all of my troubleshooting will include LFS and picking your brains if you're willing.

Considering the age of the set and its current value from what I've seen online, I'm not willing to invest a lot into it cashwise.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[kc8adu]

Re: ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

if you are sure it has hv turn the g2 up slightly.these blank the pic till the akb does its thing.sign the crt is circling the drain.

[fz_jim]

Re: ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

I'll give it a shot thanks. I'm certain it's near death, considering its make and age. Bear with me, this thing is god-awful heavy, and I'm currently off from work with pneumonia... so my strength isn't what it should be.

[PlainBill]

Re: ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

To answer the question in the title - In my (no so) humble opinion, it's not worth repairing unless:

A: It is a very inexpensive part
B: It had a very sharp picture before it failed
C: You have to squeeze ever cent out of a dollar (not an uncommon problem at this time).

The fact is you can pick up working 32" TVs on Craigslist every day for under $25. You can pick up working 32" LCD TVs every week for under $300.

PlainBill

[fz_jim]

Re: ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

Well I think it's had its run.

Did the G2 adjustment in small increments and was able to get a raster. The standby light does stop flashing within due course. However, it has problems beyond what I had originally estimated, still no picture or sound regardless of inputs used. I can't access any of the on-screen menus either.

Bill,

Your three criteria for repair worthiness are what I had in mind as well. Item B was especially applicable, this TV had a beautiful picture that was just beginning to show signs of its age. I had conscientiously tried to avoid unnecessary heating/cooling cycles during the 14 years I've had the set. (August 1996 assembly date evidenced upon removing the cover).

But to be honest, with being sick at the moment, and my long work hours when I'm not, coupled with the easy and inexpensive availability of used sets, makes me less than inspired to work very hard to troubleshoot it.

And seriously I am admittedly getting a little tired of its weight. I was looking online last night at some 40" flat panel TVs that would fit the same cabinet with about 1" to spare on either side. Weight? About 40 lbs. LOL and I swear the Trinitron weighs more than I do and I'm not a little guy!

[PlainBill]

Re: ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

Well I think it's had its run.

Did the G2 adjustment in small increments and was able to get a raster. The standby light does stop flashing within due course. However, it has problems beyond what I had originally estimated, still no picture or sound regardless of inputs used. I can't access any of the on-screen menus either.

Bill,

Your three criteria for repair worthiness are what I had in mind as well. Item B was especially applicable, this TV had a beautiful picture that was just beginning to show signs of its age. I had conscientiously tried to avoid unnecessary heating/cooling cycles during the 14 years I've had the set. (August 1996 assembly date evidenced upon removing the cover).

But to be honest, with being sick at the moment, and my long work hours when I'm not, coupled with the easy and inexpensive availability of used sets, makes me less than inspired to work very hard to troubleshoot it.

And seriously I am admittedly getting a little tired of its weight. I was looking online last night at some 40" flat panel TVs that would fit the same cabinet with about 1" to spare on either side. Weight? About 40 lbs. LOL and I swear the Trinitron weighs more than I do and I'm not a little guy!

I have a slightly newer version of that set. It was given to me as a Christmas present about 12 years ago. It is currently sitting in the master bedroom (after having been replaced by a 42" plasma) because my wife and I don't want to drag the thing out to the family room so I can sell it. Eventually we WILL get tired of walking around it.

Based on experience here, I would strongly suggest purchasing a 'name brand' replacement. Finding service information for many of the brands like Dynex, Insignia, Optoma, Polaroid, etc is darn near impossible.

PlainBill

[tmwalsh]

Re: ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

My MIL had a Sony that just quit like that. I took the chassis # and went on the web searching for common problems. I was 2000 miles from any tools, so called a local TV repair shop [true! there is one in Alameda, CA] and spoke with the owner. I brought the chassis into him, and he tested what he thought were the parts that normally go out, and quoted me a price to fix the chassis. My MIL agreed that it was worth it, as it had been working perfectly until then. For $75 she got her several year old set working. If the shop had had to take it apart, clean off the fuzz and dust, etc, the cost would likely have been prohibitive. As I did that part, the tech, I guess, adjusted the price for parts and 1/2 hour of his time as the diagnosis was about 20 seconds with a DMM. He new his sets, and wasn't out to make a killing that would have turned the job into zero dollars. If you don't mind getting your hands dirty and know how to discharge the crt safely, you could try the same.
FWIW, the problem was in the power supply, and it had a habit of taking out a regulator and I think, the HOT. [this was several years ago, so details have evaded resucitation] Very common failure, apparently.

tom

[fz_jim]

Re: ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

Hmmm.... I'm on the fence with it right now, I could go either way.

I did some digging in the basement last night and scared up an oscilloscope I'd forgotten about. Hasn't been calibrated in years but it should be good enough to show signal presence and waveform. I even found an old Efratom rubidium standard LOL!!

I've been working so much microwave and RF for the past decade and a half most of my TV theory has rusted... the last time I worked on a TV was the late '80's.

For kicks I turned the old Trinitron on for a bit last night, just to see if I could get anything from it by pure luck. No go of course, and although my raster was still present this time the standby light continued to flash. I left it on a little while to see if it would time out. After about a half hour the screen formed a horizontal line across the top of the tube, in the complete color spectrum from left to right, starting with deep purple and ending in yellow.

If anyone has comments I'd appreciate them. I can't get the old TV theory archives to load. As I get older I worry that some of the older info has been replaced by microwave backhaul data. LOL.

[kc8adu]

Re: ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

vertical bad and deflected all the way to the top?
scope the vertical section.probably a la7xxx .
must use an isolation transformer.hot chassis.

[fz_jim]

Re: ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

I might dig into it after the weekend. I have my daughter so it'll have to wait, Daddy's little girl comes first!

I just turned it on for kicks... that nice multicolored line is just red now.

Ya know, there's some really nice newer TV's out there...

[PlainBill]

Re: ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

I might dig into it after the weekend. I have my daughter so it'll have to wait, Daddy's little girl comes first!

I just turned it on for kicks... that nice multicolored line is just red now.

Ya know, there's some really nice newer TV's out there...

This sounds familiar. On one hand, you KNOW it's not worth the time and effort. On the other hand, you know you can't throw it out until you have proven it's unrepairable.

PlainBill

[tmwalsh]

Re: ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

Quote:
"Based on experience here, I would strongly suggest purchasing a 'name brand' replacement. Finding service information for many of the brands like Dynex, Insignia, Optoma, Polaroid, etc is darn near impossible.

PlainBill"

PlainBill, it seems that a 'name brand' is just that any more, and I'm sure there have been multiple threads about that here. Perhaps a better suggestion would be, my wild guess, is to check for service information for the brands you are considering recent models. {Yeah, I know, who looks for recent models when the latest is what is available?}
Magnavox, Zenith, Philips, RCA, GE, ProScan, Kenwood, and Sansui were all brand names used by real manufacturers. At one time. Today? I wouldn't know who made what without a magic decoder ring. Maybe the UL number listing would reveal the real manufacturer.
I listed the following once, and Wizard corrected me on one, but I don't remember which. The listing I made was by who offers service training.
Sony, Samsung, Toshiba, Mitsubishi, Philips/Funai, LG. I think the LG might have been the error, as LG is the 'hi-line' brand for Best Buy's Insignia line.
As another key to product quality, beyond service information availability and service training, is the length of the warranty. Anything with a one-year warranty is likely to be a "produce 1100, sell 1000, keep 100 in the warehouse to cover any warranty claims" type product. If it breaks out of warranty, it becomes landfill, because you cannot find schematics, setup information, nor parts.
" Ya pays yer money and ya takes your chance..."

tom

[PlainBill]

Re: ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

Quote:
"Based on experience here, I would strongly suggest purchasing a 'name brand' replacement. Finding service information for many of the brands like Dynex, Insignia, Optoma, Polaroid, etc is darn near impossible.

PlainBill"

PlainBill, it seems that a 'name brand' is just that any more, and I'm sure there have been multiple threads about that here. Perhaps a better suggestion would be, my wild guess, is to check for service information for the brands you are considering recent models. {Yeah, I know, who looks for recent models when the latest is what is available?}
Magnavox, Zenith, Philips, RCA, GE, ProScan, Kenwood, and Sansui were all brand names used by real manufacturers. At one time. Today? I wouldn't know who made what without a magic decoder ring. Maybe the UL number listing would reveal the real manufacturer.
I listed the following once, and Wizard corrected me on one, but I don't remember which. The listing I made was by who offers service training.
Sony, Samsung, Toshiba, Mitsubishi, Philips/Funai, LG. I think the LG might have been the error, as LG is the 'hi-line' brand for Best Buy's Insignia line.
As another key to product quality, beyond service information availability and service training, is the length of the warranty. Anything with a one-year warranty is likely to be a "produce 1100, sell 1000, keep 100 in the warehouse to cover any warranty claims" type product. If it breaks out of warranty, it becomes landfill, because you cannot find schematics, setup information, nor parts.
" Ya pays yer money and ya takes your chance..."

tom

To clear up a few misconceptions. I was using 'Name Brand' to describe a company which stands behind it's product. A great many former 'brand names' have been sold and products are now appearing with that name, but from a different manufacturer.

Polaroid, Memorex, Sylvania, Westinghouse, Magnavox, Zenith and others are brand names that no longer are associated with the reliable manufacturers we once relied upon. Vizio, Insignia, Haier, Viore, Dynex, Optoma, Projecta are new brand names that in most cases are either store brands or manufactured by a company with no discernable service operation.

One point - LG Electronics is more than 60 years old. While I do not consider them a top line manufacturer, service information, and servicing is available for their products. Contrast that with Polaroid TVs, where a replacement 'electronics assembly' cost more than the retail price of the complete product.

One point that confuses many. LG Electronics makes plasma displays. The plasma panel and support electronics makes up 90% of a plasma TV. Their panels are used in a number of brands of TVs, including their own brands (LG and Zenith), Vizio, Philips, and many more. Samsung does the same thing (and I consider their products superior).

PlainBill

[Urbanhiker]

Re: ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

FZ Jim,

Careful, 30-25 years ago I to worked as a bench service tech for a TV/ VCR repair business authorized depot for Sony. As I remember the chassis is "Hot" to one side of the AC line. I quickly learned from experience.
If your Oscilloscope is earth grounded, "SPARK-FLASH" you will weld the ground clip to the chassis, blow a rectifier in the TV power supply and lastly the fuse. I don't recall power transformers used, but be careful. Then again that was 30-25 years ago.
Use an isolation transformer 1:1, made for the AC line if you have one to be safe.

Yeah.. it was Beta VCRs I worked on as well as VHS. They had power transformers to isolate the AC line from chassis ground.

Urbanhiker

[PlainBill]

Re: ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

FZ Jim,

Careful, 30-25 years ago I to worked as a bench service tech for a TV/ VCR repair business authorized depot for Sony. As I remember the chassis is "Hot" to one side of the AC line. I quickly learned from experience.
If your Oscilloscope is earth grounded, "SPARK-FLASH" you will weld the ground clip to the chassis, blow a rectifier in the TV power supply and lastly the fuse. I don't recall power transformers used, but be careful. Then again that was 30-25 years ago.
Use an isolation transformer 1:1, made for the AC line if you have one to be safe.

Yeah.. it was Beta VCRs I worked on as well as VHS. They had power transformers to isolate the AC line from chassis ground.

Urbanhiker

Interesting. There is a related discussion going on in the sci.electronics.repair newsgroup about isolation transformers. Some people claim they should never be used; use a scope in differential mode instead. My response was there are a lot of technicians who worked on sets with live chassis who would be surprised to learn they are doing it wrong. Of course, the 'always keep one hand in your pocket' rule is a good one, too.

PlainBill

[Krankshaft]

Re: ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

An isolation transformer without breaking the bank in a nice case. I could just see myself knocking one of those freestanding iso transformers off my workbench so luckily I found this.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/72-6670

Fused on both input and output. Rated at 4A continuous well to be specific thats at 110V technically it's 3.75 Amps at 120V. 450VA / 120 = 3.75A.

Not only can you fry the circuit under test without one you can also fry your scope.

If your TV also has a line connected 120 or 130V HOT B+ regulator keep your hands off it's heatsink without an ISO it will be HOT.

Newer sets eliminate this component by taking this voltage off a winding of the switching power supply transformer eliminating this regulator.

[Innov8tive1]

Re: ANOTHER 32" Trinitron...is it worth it?

Thanks for that link, I have wanted to get one for use at home but could not justify the price. Although I might be able to get the one from the shop I used to work at as since I left they farm everything out and I still do the occasional repair for them.