My TFT monitor sometimes blacks out...

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  • Baron
    Member
    • Sep 2006
    • 24
    #1

    My TFT monitor sometimes blacks out...

    Not sure if I have mentioned this before....but,
    I am in the UK...if that helps..........what seems to happen is that when the heating boiler (gas fired) is turned on......for hot water, or a shower, the monitor will go blank for a second or two and them come back on again. It can do this a few times and can last for a few minutes.

    Now you can appreciate that this can be a bit disconcerting when I am playing BF2142 online, as I get killed...a lot !

    I have just ordered an APC 600va line conditioner to see if that may help, and plug my PC and monitor into that and see if it makes any difference.

    This 'power glitch' does not affect anything else....TV etc or appear to affect the PC itself.


    Anyone any thoughts ?
    Tt Armor+ black case--Corsair HX1050--Intel i7 920 (default)+Noctua U12-Gigabyte GA-58EX-Extreme--6GB tri-ch. Corsair Dominator+ Corsair Dominator memory cooler--2 X Gigabyte 6870OC CF -2 x 300GB WD V-Raptors--1 X 500GB WD Green--1 x WD 250GB--1 X 1TB Samsung F3--8 case fans--Samsung T220 22" + Dell WFP2408 24"--Logitech G15 keyboard-Logitech G500 mouse--Onboard sound--plus other bits.
    OS-Vista-64bit+Win7-64bit+Win 8 64bit.
    Tags: None
    • gonzo0815
      Badcaps Legend
      • Feb 2006
      • 1600
      #2
      Re: My TFT monitor sometimes blacks out...

      I think that the heater is producing a short sag. Typically a pc PSu and most other stuff is not sensitive to such conditions, as they are designed to hold a sufficient charge in their capacitors (intentionally or because the capacitance is a by product of other reasons).

      If your monitor is a older one, may be it`s capacitors are weak (well, most TFT`s have the shoddiest capacitors you can imagine, so they rapidly lose capacitance). So may be you can replace them with slightly larger ones (especially the primary side capacitor).
      This could may be all what is needed to desensitize the unit.

      I do not know in detail, what this line conditioner really does, but from my understanding it is noting more then a surge protector and a EMI / RFI filter coil.
      This will probably do not solve your issue.

      From my understanding you have two choices apart from increasing the capacitance in the TFT unit.
      You could address the problem at it`s root by installing an inrush current limiter at the heater. You can buy such units in most hardware stores i think (at least if your heater is not permanently connected to the mains panel).
      If this is not possible, the other solution would be an "on line" USV, which does always feed the outlets by the internal double converter.
      Another more experimental solution would be a big coil, like a PFC coil from an old ATX PSU in series with the monitor.
      It i will smooth out and delay the sag if the inductance is high enough (this is probably to expensive to build into a line conditioner)

        Comment

        • Gianni
          Badcaps Veteran
          • Jul 2008
          • 681
          • Italy
          #3
          Re: My TFT monitor sometimes blacks out...

          Originally posted by gonzo0815
          (intentionally or because the capacitance is a by product of other reasons)
          The hold up time is intentional, at least when I worked for another company, we build PSU with an hold up time greater than 50mS because our customer had his appliance in isolated places where the line had some short black outs very often.
          This was a very custom request, but usually the company designed industrial PSU with a minimum hold up time of 20mS. it was in '90 and I can't remeber if there is a standard specification or requirement imposed by some national/international rule.

          Originally posted by Baron
          the heating boiler (gas fired) is turned on
          If I understand correctly the boiler works with gas, so it doesn't consume much power to drop the line, I think it produce some sparks to light the gas.
          In this case the sparks can create some spikes on the line or EMI interferences and the monitor crash because it's too sensitive.

          Just my thoughts, I'm not expert with TFT monitor.

          Gianni
          Last edited by Gianni; 10-07-2008, 03:55 PM. Reason: Typo
          "In the confrontation between the stream and the rock, the stream always wins...Not through strength, but through persistence."
          H. J. Brown

            Comment

            • willawake
              Super Modulator
              • Nov 2003
              • 8457
              • Greece
              #4
              Re: My TFT monitor sometimes blacks out...

              yeah this thing probably has piezoelectric ignition and maybe a fan?

              wierd stuff though.

              i wasnt too impressed with the apc line-r units. actually one died but the problem is they make this fucking BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
              when they trim the voltage down. couldnt find a setting to stop this
              this is not some "silentpc" comment, its pretty bad
              maybe the newer units better

              they say they have EMI/RFI filters so thats maybe what you want

              worth a look inside the tft also
              Last edited by willawake; 10-07-2008, 04:18 PM.
              capacitor lab yachtmati techmati

                Comment

                • Baron
                  Member
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 24
                  #5
                  Re: My TFT monitor sometimes blacks out...

                  Thanks for all the replies.....I am a bit late....I have been playing with my new Logitech G9 mouse and G15 v2 keyboard

                  Yep, the heating boiler is gas fired, and the electricity is used to first turn on a fan for a second(ish)to clear out any residue of fumes before a spark is applied to the gas burners.

                  My Sony that was repaired, still suffered from the blackouts, but I don't know what repairs took place. All I know is that although it would turn on (I could see the edges of the screen lit, all I got was a blank screen.

                  It also happened to the temp replacement monitor supplied by Sony.

                  It also happens to my sons 19" Belinea, that I am currently using.....so it seems to happen to any TFT monitor.

                  There can be evenings (when it happens to me) when I get no screen blackouts, and other times it can go on and off quite a few times whilse the hot water is being run off the boiler.

                  So, I have bought a Line Conditioner......an APC 600I unit and installed that.
                  and will have to see whether I suffer from interference again.

                  http://www.apcc.com/resource/include...ase_sku=LE600I

                  I do note though, that the 'normal' led is lit...as I would expect.
                  But, the low voltage led is also lit.............not flickering though, as that would indicate a low voltage below spec.
                  Not heard any buzzing from it yet.....

                  So I am wondering if there is a mains power problem in my house.
                  It was totally rewired about 10 years ago, and has a modern(ish) trip fuse board.

                  I guess I shall just have to wait and see.....

                  Any other thoughts are most welcome.
                  Tt Armor+ black case--Corsair HX1050--Intel i7 920 (default)+Noctua U12-Gigabyte GA-58EX-Extreme--6GB tri-ch. Corsair Dominator+ Corsair Dominator memory cooler--2 X Gigabyte 6870OC CF -2 x 300GB WD V-Raptors--1 X 500GB WD Green--1 x WD 250GB--1 X 1TB Samsung F3--8 case fans--Samsung T220 22" + Dell WFP2408 24"--Logitech G15 keyboard-Logitech G500 mouse--Onboard sound--plus other bits.
                  OS-Vista-64bit+Win7-64bit+Win 8 64bit.

                    Comment

                    • Gianni
                      Badcaps Veteran
                      • Jul 2008
                      • 681
                      • Italy
                      #6
                      Re: My TFT monitor sometimes blacks out...

                      You have the same problem with 3 different TFT monitor, at this point I think the problem is in the PC or Video Card, not in the monitor.

                      So I think you have to try another video card or PSU.
                      I don't know if it could be also the video cable between PC and monitor.

                      Originally posted by Baron
                      It was totally rewired about 10 years ago, and has a modern(ish) trip fuse board.
                      New doesn't mean automatically good; I have changed home 6 months ago and before I could go there, I did some adjustments. The flat is quite new, 6 years old, but I had to fix the wiring because there were some strange connection.
                      Not to mention the way the place wiring under walls...

                      Ciao
                      Gianni
                      "In the confrontation between the stream and the rock, the stream always wins...Not through strength, but through persistence."
                      H. J. Brown

                        Comment

                        • Baron
                          Member
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 24
                          #7
                          Re: My TFT monitor sometimes blacks out...

                          Thanks again for replies.

                          I don't think it is my PSU........it is a Corsair HX620.... (I don't have another PSU to test it out)
                          It could be the GF7800GTX, but it is a BFG model..... (No spare gfx card either)

                          Since installing my APC, for two evenings (when I use the PC) I have not suffered any blacking out....................showering etc.

                          So, it is either down to the APC unit, or, because there is now a different power cable to the monitor.
                          But, if it works and 'fixes' the problem, then I am a happy bunny as the unit is doing its job smoothing things out.
                          Much more efficient than the normal surge protected 4 gang extension leads I am currently using.

                          As I have 4 outlets on the back of the unit, No. 1 is the PC, 2 is the monitor, and I will use 3 and 4 for my printer and scanner.
                          Other bits like speakers I will just plug into the surge protected extension leads, and try and tidy things up a bit under my desk as it is a bit of a rats nest at the moment....

                          It is looking good that the problem has been solved, but time will tell as it has only been a couple of days.

                          Thanks to you all for taking an interest and coming up with ideas......
                          Last edited by Baron; 10-09-2008, 11:19 AM.
                          Tt Armor+ black case--Corsair HX1050--Intel i7 920 (default)+Noctua U12-Gigabyte GA-58EX-Extreme--6GB tri-ch. Corsair Dominator+ Corsair Dominator memory cooler--2 X Gigabyte 6870OC CF -2 x 300GB WD V-Raptors--1 X 500GB WD Green--1 x WD 250GB--1 X 1TB Samsung F3--8 case fans--Samsung T220 22" + Dell WFP2408 24"--Logitech G15 keyboard-Logitech G500 mouse--Onboard sound--plus other bits.
                          OS-Vista-64bit+Win7-64bit+Win 8 64bit.

                            Comment

                            • Wizard
                              Badcaps Legend
                              • Mar 2008
                              • 2296
                              #8
                              Re: My TFT monitor sometimes blacks out...

                              This stilll tells me your wiring is having a problem or fuse/breaker panel at issue.

                              Get that checked. Consumer level APC is not good stuff if I remember correctly.

                              Cheers, Wizard

                                Comment

                                • Baron
                                  Member
                                  • Sep 2006
                                  • 24
                                  #9
                                  Re: My TFT monitor sometimes blacks out...

                                  Thanks Wizard.
                                  I am trying to get a reasonable case to put to my Electricty Board for them to come and check out the wiring.
                                  No problem found = I have to cough up a large amount of money for them to come out
                                  Problem found = free fixing
                                  So, I am kind of wary.....
                                  Tt Armor+ black case--Corsair HX1050--Intel i7 920 (default)+Noctua U12-Gigabyte GA-58EX-Extreme--6GB tri-ch. Corsair Dominator+ Corsair Dominator memory cooler--2 X Gigabyte 6870OC CF -2 x 300GB WD V-Raptors--1 X 500GB WD Green--1 x WD 250GB--1 X 1TB Samsung F3--8 case fans--Samsung T220 22" + Dell WFP2408 24"--Logitech G15 keyboard-Logitech G500 mouse--Onboard sound--plus other bits.
                                  OS-Vista-64bit+Win7-64bit+Win 8 64bit.

                                    Comment

                                    • Wizard
                                      Badcaps Legend
                                      • Mar 2008
                                      • 2296
                                      #10
                                      Re: My TFT monitor sometimes blacks out...

                                      Hire interdependent electrican to inspect and draw up attack of plan to add to your case.

                                      You do not want to use their committees's choices yet.

                                      Cheers, Wizard.

                                        Comment

                                        • Baron
                                          Member
                                          • Sep 2006
                                          • 24
                                          #11
                                          Re: My TFT monitor sometimes blacks out...

                                          Noted.......cheers
                                          Tt Armor+ black case--Corsair HX1050--Intel i7 920 (default)+Noctua U12-Gigabyte GA-58EX-Extreme--6GB tri-ch. Corsair Dominator+ Corsair Dominator memory cooler--2 X Gigabyte 6870OC CF -2 x 300GB WD V-Raptors--1 X 500GB WD Green--1 x WD 250GB--1 X 1TB Samsung F3--8 case fans--Samsung T220 22" + Dell WFP2408 24"--Logitech G15 keyboard-Logitech G500 mouse--Onboard sound--plus other bits.
                                          OS-Vista-64bit+Win7-64bit+Win 8 64bit.

                                            Comment

                                            • willawake
                                              Super Modulator
                                              • Nov 2003
                                              • 8457
                                              • Greece
                                              #12
                                              Re: My TFT monitor sometimes blacks out...

                                              Originally posted by Baron
                                              So, I have bought an APC 600I unit....the low voltage led is also lit.............not flickering though, as that would indicate a low voltage below spec.
                                              ok these things and the smart ups unit i have do low and high most of the time. this is their job. no utility power is perfect and they compensate for the low and high.

                                              unfortunately there is never much delicate control offered by APC for what is low and high.
                                              capacitor lab yachtmati techmati

                                                Comment

                                                • Baron
                                                  Member
                                                  • Sep 2006
                                                  • 24
                                                  #13
                                                  Re: My TFT monitor sometimes blacks out...

                                                  Thanks mate.
                                                  Having a new toy to play with, I was a little unsure of the display.
                                                  I have got used to it now, and it appears to be doing its job.

                                                  Ummm...silly question I guess, but isn't a Line Conditioner the same as a UPS but without the battery back up...generally ?

                                                  Tt Armor+ black case--Corsair HX1050--Intel i7 920 (default)+Noctua U12-Gigabyte GA-58EX-Extreme--6GB tri-ch. Corsair Dominator+ Corsair Dominator memory cooler--2 X Gigabyte 6870OC CF -2 x 300GB WD V-Raptors--1 X 500GB WD Green--1 x WD 250GB--1 X 1TB Samsung F3--8 case fans--Samsung T220 22" + Dell WFP2408 24"--Logitech G15 keyboard-Logitech G500 mouse--Onboard sound--plus other bits.
                                                  OS-Vista-64bit+Win7-64bit+Win 8 64bit.

                                                    Comment

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