Sony KDS-55A3000 LCoS ("SXRD") RPTV 9 blinks error code

[SurrealMustard]

I'm working on one of the newer (2008) Sony Bravia rear projection sets and am having an issue where it will power down almost immediately after lighting the lamp and blink the power light 9 times, indicating a "fan error" according to the service guide. The amount of time that it stays on before this error occurs varies between 1 and 10 seconds or so.

I dug into the set and found that the exhaust fan for the lamp was a bit on the stiff side, so I replaced it and tried again, but it's doing the exact same thing. With the screen off, I can visually confirm that 3 fans are running fine. Using an external power supply, I was also able to verify that a fourth (hidden) fan deep in the light engine works as well.

Is there another (fifth) cooling fan in this thing somewhere or could there be some other deficiency causing this problem? All the cabling looks solid and it doesn't appear that anyone has been poking around in this thing before, but it was (and still kind of is) extremely dirty thanks to negligence of the previous owner. Also, this is one of those unusual (pesky) models where everything has to be worked on from the front.

[budwich]

Re: Sony KDS-55A3000 LCoS ("SXRD") RPTV 9 blinks error code

hopefully those are pictures BEFORE you did a thorough cleaning... wow!.

don't know much about this type versus something like a samsung dlp led based unit but perhaps there is some air flow sensor somewhere that is clogged.

If you start the thing with all the air flow fans disconnected, do you get a different reaction / error?

Perhaps you need to reset the error code some way.

PS. Quick read of the service manual would suggest a thermal issue.... as "suggested", a thorough cleaning might solve your problems. Also, there are only 4 fans.

PPS. have you entered the service menu and looked at the error counters? have you tried to clear them?
PPPS... sheesh :-) my read, if you don't go into the service menu, then the set will always display the "first error" that caused the original / first problem... subsequent errors elsewhere will NOT be displayed / flashed.

[SurrealMustard]

Dead end

hopefully those are pictures BEFORE you did a thorough cleaning... wow!.

The second picture, yes.
And the best part is that it was so dirty, even the mirror has this wonderful fog over it. Trouble is, they say that you shouldn't attempt to clean it because it is made out of a material that will scratch and lose its finish if you try.

don't know much about this type versus something like a samsung dlp led based unit but perhaps there is some air flow sensor somewhere that is clogged.

If you start the thing with all the air flow fans disconnected, do you get a different reaction / error?

Good suggestion. It appears that the same thing happens with all of the fans disconnected.

Perhaps you need to reset the error code some way.

PS. Quick read of the service manual would suggest a thermal issue.... as "suggested", a thorough cleaning might solve your problems. Also, there are only 4 fans.

PPS. have you entered the service menu and looked at the error counters? have you tried to clear them?
PPPS... sheesh :-) my read, if you don't go into the service menu, then the set will always display the "first error" that caused the original / first problem... subsequent errors elsewhere will NOT be displayed / flashed.

I tried booting up into the self-diagnostic self check screen, but it just powers off the same as when booting it up normally.

[budwich]

Re: Sony KDS-55A3000 LCoS ("SXRD") RPTV 9 blinks error code

I don't have answer for the "boot up" issue other than what sequence / steps did you follow?

As for cleaning the mirror, yes they are "fragile" because they are "first surface" mirrors which means they have no "coating" over the reflecting surface. However, it can be cleaned with some combination of a bit of liquid dishwashing detergent and water along with a spray bottle and soft cloth. Don't get aggressive with your wiping... if need be, do multiple spray and wipe sessions.
It is surprising how much "air pollution" will end up on these things even in a "daily environment". Our old crt based set had significant build up from things like "cooking smoke", candle / fire place "particulate", etc in a no cig smoke environment. After cleaning, the picture was "night and day" different in terms of brightness.

[budwich]

Re: Sony KDS-55A3000 LCoS ("SXRD") RPTV 9 blinks error code

yikes... I see from schematics that there indeed is a 5th fan. maybe your problem. Or maybe not... I see it has a "reserved" label so maybe an alternate position.

[SurrealMustard]

Fan hunting

I don't have answer for the "boot up" issue other than what sequence / steps did you follow?

"Display", "5", "Volume down", "power". I could even see the error menu come up in the dust on the mirror for a few moments before the whole set shut down again, so I know it took.

As for cleaning the mirror, yes they are "fragile" because they are "first surface" mirrors which means they have no "coating" over the reflecting surface. However, it can be cleaned with some combination of a bit of liquid dishwashing detergent and water along with a spray bottle and soft cloth. Don't get aggressive with your wiping... if need be, do multiple spray and wipe sessions.
It is surprising how much "air pollution" will end up on these things even in a "daily environment". Our old crt based set had significant build up from things like "cooking smoke", candle / fire place "particulate", etc in a no cig smoke environment. After cleaning, the picture was "night and day" different in terms of brightness.

I'll have to keep that in mind. Thanks.

yikes... I see from schematics that there indeed is a 5th fan. maybe your problem. Or maybe not... I see it has a "reserved" label so maybe an alternate position.

Does it say where it's at? The only place I haven't accounted for is the depths of the power supply/chassi side of the set, and I already located the (obvious) fan at the back of that area. Is there one tucked away and hidden on one of those boards possibly?

[budwich]

Re: Sony KDS-55A3000 LCoS ("SXRD") RPTV 9 blinks error code

ok... that's more info. So in those moments, try doing a clear operation ... "8" then "0"... you might get lucky... :-)

look at page 44 and see if you can figure out anything from it... with out a set in front of me, its pretty difficult. Further, that page shows the control lines coming in so you might be able monitor those for some indication as to which, if any are an issue by doing multiple start up attempts.

even though the fans might be turning, they may not be turning "at speed" because of an issue. Each has a regulator, one of them might be "complaining"/reporting an error.... just a thought though. Look at the g board for more info.

[budwich]

Re: Sony KDS-55A3000 LCoS ("SXRD") RPTV 9 blinks error code

have you tried doing a factory reset?

lastly, do you actually see the fans spin up?.... related to this have you actually tested the power (and grounds) going to them along with measuring / comparing the "impedance" that they offer to the power circuits?

[R_J]

Re: Sony KDS-55A3000 LCoS ("SXRD") RPTV 9 blinks error code

It's been a while but I believe the fans produce a tach signal, if its not there, even though the fan spins the tv won't detect it spinning.

[SurrealMustard]

Troubleshooting

look at page 44 and see if you can figure out anything from it... with out a set in front of me, its pretty difficult. Further, that page shows the control lines coming in so you might be able monitor those for some indication as to which, if any are an issue by doing multiple start up attempts.

I see that "reserved" fan you were talking about on page 44 now. All three of those ("C board", "lamp", and "panel" fans) are all on the same connector going to the light engine and lamp compartment. The interesting thing is that the chart seems to mention two different "C board" fans, when there is in fact only one. Maybe there are only four (in the whole set).

even though the fans might be turning, they may not be turning "at speed" because of an issue. Each has a regulator, one of them might be "complaining"/reporting an error.... just a thought though. Look at the g board for more info.

That's what I originally thought. With the old lamp exhaust fan, it would turn when hooked up to a 12v power supply, but would not always do so when run at 5 (which is what a lot of those fans are probably run at most of the time to keep things quiet), so I figured that it was the obvious culprit. All of the other fans that I have physical access to spin freely when actuated by hand.

ok... that's more info. So in those moments, try doing a clear operation ... "8" then "0"... you might get lucky... :-)

The clear operation was successful, but the problem doesn't go away. The good news is that with having left the thing plugged in overnight, it seems like it runs for a bit longer now before shutting off. Now I'm getting what feels like between 5 and 15 seconds instead of between 1 and 10. After the lamp warms up a bit (and I bet it loves all these startup and shutdown cycles), I can actually see the error code listing in the dust on the mirror.

have you tried doing a factory reset?

Not yet. I don't know if I'd be able to navigate the user menu quickly enough before the thing shuts off anyway.

lastly, do you actually see the fans spin up?.... related to this have you actually tested the power (and grounds) going to them along with measuring / comparing the "impedance" that they offer to the power circuits?

Yes. I have visual confirmation on three of the four fans that I know of in the set. As for voltages, I get "in-spec" numbers for most of the fans; the lamp fan gets 5.5-6.5, the c-board fan gets 8.4-7.4, and that fan by the chassi and power supply gets 8. The only thing that has me concerned is that the "panel fan" is only getting 1.2 volts, which doesn't sound like enough.

For checking the impedance, is that something to test while it is running? If so, what would be the target values?

It's been a while but I believe the fans produce a tach signal, if its not there, even though the fan spins the tv won't detect it spinning.

Can that be measured by way of multimeter?

[R_J]

Re: Sony KDS-55A3000 LCoS ("SXRD") RPTV 9 blinks error code

Not really, you should use a scope, but try. It's the fan protect line, there may be a slight voltage that can be measured, try dc and ac on your meter, if the fan is spinning, the tach should be close to the same on each fan. if you can't measure it you will need to go further it the circuit, check the fan_err voltage (page 46) and (page 44) also check the voltage at the common cathode of the dual diode, that might give an indication of which fan might be at fault

[budwich]

Re: Sony KDS-55A3000 LCoS ("SXRD") RPTV 9 blinks error code

not sure how or what you used to determine a "replacement" for the one that your replaced, but I would have expected them all to be of the same "nature". IF that is indeed the case, then measuring the impedance is just a simple resistance check with a meter on the two leads (if that is how they are wired)... again the manual is hard to follow without a "real device" to look at for some "reality".
My guess is that indeed the panel fan power seems low. I too would have expected 5v or there abouts.

As for factory reset, I don't think the thing needs to be actually running. Its done via the remote much like the service manual "technique" that you already attempted.

Look at the user guide. Having said that, it will likely not help as it does appear that the set has a valid error still that needs attention.
The panel fan is probably pretty important as you would probably smoke the panel quickly if it isn't being cool as it takes a "direct hit" from the lamp.
I suspect that your clearing of the errors helped clear some of the other errors one of which might have been the panel temperature ... maybe. So now perhaps, the temperature error isn't there but maybe just a slowing panel fan... but eventually the panel temp error will come back if things are not addressed... just a guess though at a possible explanation as to how you got where you are (ie. bit longer before shut down).

IF you can, it would be good to try look at all the status counts in the service screen before it shuts down.... actually, probably not all, just some key ones.

yes the lamp is probably not liking be re-struck... you should wait 2-3 minutes before attempting restarts as a minimum. Some projectors have temp sensors near / around bulb areas to prevent "hot restrikes" as a safe guard... not sure about these sets.

[R_J]

Re: Sony KDS-55A3000 LCoS ("SXRD") RPTV 9 blinks error code

The fan you replaced had 3 wires, correct? did the fan you replaced it with have 3 wires? if not there's your problem.
If the fan is not outputing a signal, the tv thinks the fan has stoped and will shut down.

[SurrealMustard]

Low voltage

Not really, you should use a scope, but try. It's the fan protect line, there may be a slight voltage that can be measured, try dc and ac on your meter, if the fan is spinning, the tach should be close to the same on each fan. if you can't measure it you will need to go further it the circuit, check the fan_err voltage (page 46) and (page 44) also check the voltage at the common cathode of the dual diode, that might give an indication of which fan might be at fault

I wasn't able to get much measuring the tachometer signal on AC. On DC, it actually started high, then went low after the fan started turning and stayed there even after it shut off.

not sure how or what you used to determine a "replacement" for the one that you[] replaced, but I would have expected them all to be of the same "nature". IF that is indeed the case, then measuring the impedance is just a simple resistance check with a meter on the two leads (if that is how they are wired)... again the manual is hard to follow without a "real device" to look at for some "reality".

The fan I replaced was actually just a standard 120mm computer case fan. I had to splice on the original connector from the Sony fan, but it was identical other than that. Would I want to be checking the resistance with the fan turning or off?

IF you can, it would be good to try look at all the status counts in the service screen before it shuts down.... actually, probably not all, just some key ones.

After resetting it yesterday, there's nothing next to any of the values except for the fan error (which has a tally of 19). I'm not sure if there were any errors before resetting it either (probably should've put the screen on then and done what I did today, but I guess now we'll never know)

The panel fan is probably pretty important as you would probably smoke the panel quickly if it isn't being cool as it takes a "direct hit" from the lamp.
I suspect that your clearing of the errors helped clear some of the other errors one of which might have been the panel temperature ... maybe. So now perhaps, the temperature error isn't there but maybe just a slowing panel fan... but eventually the panel temp error will come back if things are not addressed... just a guess though at a possible explanation as to how you got where you are (ie. bit longer before shut down).
.

Yeah, the low voltage on there did have me a bit confused. The interesting thing is that it doesn't go back up even with that fan disconnected. I wonder if that's its problem though, since that's a pretty big fan and I don't even know if that would be enough to turn it at all (just for the record, that's on the panel fan, not the lamp exhaust fan that I replaced), so if that is indeed what is going on, I can see why it's having problems.

The fan you replaced had 3 wires, correct? did the fan you replaced it with have 3 wires? if not there's your problem.
If the fan is not outputing a signal, the tv thinks the fan has stoped and will shut down.

Yup. The replacement fan had three wires.

[budwich]

Re: Sony KDS-55A3000 LCoS ("SXRD") RPTV 9 blinks error code

well that's a lot of errors... :-)
I think as rj suggested, you need to check each "reporting" lead (can't remember which page) for each fan to see which / any are reporting a problem... go from there. Note that measuring the resistance of each fan could be useful as I do believe they are being driven by 5v (guess) and IF the resistance is less than 5 ohm then you are likely exceeding the regulator capacity which I saw was 1 amp. Maybe dreaming though ...:-)

[SurrealMustard]

The plot thickens (a little)

I may have made a little progress on this, even if it was only a minor observation. It would appear that after having left the set plugged in all weekend by accident, it is able to stay running for close to a minute before shutting off. Subsequent attempts to start lead to runtimes comparable to how they were before (just a few seconds).