Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

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  • Dannyx
    CertifiedAxhole
    • Aug 2016
    • 3912
    • Romania

    #1

    Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

    Greetings fellows, I've searched the forums for this power supply and TV, but I couldn't find anything remotely close, so I'll start my own thread and hopefully we'll be able to fix this TV, as it seems like a real simple thing, but I can't quite pinpoint it.
    The problem: a Samsung ue32h4510 Smart bla bla TV turns on and off at random intervals. Sometimes it stays on for longer, sometimes the "Smart" logo flashes on screen for barely a second and then it goes off before rebooting again.
    What I found so far: I'm most certain it's a power supply issue. The power board is a BN44-00696A (see the pictures, let me know if you want any close-ups of specific parts). I first wanted to make sure it's not the main board to blame, so I unplugged it from the supply and, like with most Samsungs, the LEDs fired up.....for a while at least, as after a few moments, they started flickering and eventually went out (indicating the same intermittent power issue from earlier). I then wanted to make sure it's not a bad LED to blame, so I did the opposite and left just the board with no LEDs. Using my phone's flashlight, I was able to see the logo coming on and then the fuzz you get when there's no antenna plugged it. Once again, it worked like that for a few moments and then rebooted. My first thought was to reflow the connections to the transformer, diodes and switching transistor. I even pulled out the D-PAK diodes on the back of the board and checked them - they all seem fine and there are no other shorts. I tried the TV again and it almost seemed like I fixed the issue: it stayed on for way longer, but then it went off again (after around 10-15 minutes). I then proceeded to swapping out some caps: I started with the 47uF one near the rectifier bridge (towards the middle-right of the board) and then the two 470uF ones in the upper left (which was useless now that I look at it, since those are tied to the backlight portion which seems to work). I tried it again and this time it seemed even worse for some reason, as the backlight flickered a lot and the TV barely came on - it took 2-3 tries to get it to show anything and then it went through its power cycle again. When it does decide to stay on, I get the correct 12v on the 12v rail, so the secondary seems perfectly fine - it's the primary I'm holding as the main culprit. There's also a whistling noise coming from the coil that's part of the LED drive (only when the LEDs are plugged in, of course), but I'm pretty sure that's normal. Here's the weird part: it only seems to turn off when I touch or bump the power board, which is why I still think there's a bad joint somewhere (though I may be far off). Could it be a bad optocoupler or control IC? Again, please don't go too hard on me if this has already been asked somewhere else, but I have searched the forum and couldn't find something related to it. I'm still new around here and may not know how to correctly use the search function LOL. What do you guys think ?
    Attached Files
    Wattevah...
  • thoma
    Badcaps Veteran
    • Sep 2012
    • 268
    • Germany

    #2
    Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

    https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...=25810&page=15

    https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...=25810&page=14

    perhaps can help similar schematic samsung SMPS!

    regards thoma!

    Comment

    • CapLeaker
      Leaking Member
      • Dec 2014
      • 8070
      • Canada

      #3
      Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

      What happens to the pins at CNM803 when the TV friggs up? Do they power down? Try turning the backlights down low as they go and see if your TV stays on longer.

      Comment

      • budm
        Badcaps Legend
        • Feb 2010
        • 40746
        • USA

        #4
        Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

        Since this power supply board is and always on power supply, when you run the power supply board by itself without the main board connected, the BACKLIGHTS come on but did not stay on and also so flicker.
        So the DCV on the output side of those 4 rectifier diodes in the cold side are not flickering at all?
        BTW, did you use LOW ESR caps for the replacement? These board with rivets for through hole soldering are know for having bad solder joints, I always resolder them all.
        Last edited by budm; 08-31-2016, 09:01 AM.
        Never stop learning
        Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

        Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

        Inverter testing using old CFL:
        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

        Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
        http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

        TV Factory reset codes listing:
        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

        Comment

        • Dannyx
          CertifiedAxhole
          • Aug 2016
          • 3912
          • Romania

          #5
          Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

          CNM803 is the LED output - as far as I remember, yes, it too becomes unstable when the supply starts messing up and makes that whizzing sound (which I believe comes from that choke btw - "T9101CS" on the board and "222L" sticker on top). It doesn't start whizzing straight away though: it operates normally and silently for a random period, but then when I poke the board or just on its own, it starts making that whistling sound and the LEDs start flickering shortly after. It doesn't actually shut down entirely - it's like you're connecting a lightbulb to a socket and you're touching the wires together and get that unsteady contact that causes the bulb to flicker. Once it starts messing up, it hardly ever goes back to normal - I have to cycle the power to get it steady again (and sometimes it still doesn't work steadily), so it's like something's heating up and causes the defect :|
          Last edited by Dannyx; 08-31-2016, 10:26 AM. Reason: Added more specific information
          Wattevah...

          Comment

          • Dannyx
            CertifiedAxhole
            • Aug 2016
            • 3912
            • Romania

            #6
            Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

            Like I said, I believe I covered most of the solder joints: transformer, transistor(s), choke, diodes (even went down in the primary and reflown the bloody power inlet, hoping it had somehow become loose) - no go.
            Wattevah...

            Comment

            • Dannyx
              CertifiedAxhole
              • Aug 2016
              • 3912
              • Romania

              #7
              Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

              Originally posted by CapLeaker
              What happens to the pins at CNM803 when the TV friggs up? Do they power down? Try turning the backlights down low as they go and see if your TV stays on longer.
              Oh yeah, that's right: it's worth mentioning that the reservoir cap CP801S remains at full voltage (I THINK 280V, as it doesn't have PFC on it) at all times, even when the TV becomes unstable, so it's something in the switching circuit that causes this, that's why I asked about the possibility of the optocoupler going bad - I've seen a video where a Vestel board had intermittent power issues due to it. Any way I can check it ? It's a part which I don't have much experience with, since it rarely goes bad. As far as I know, the LED is on the output side and the phototransistor is on the switching side (and the "base" is essentially the light coming from the LED).
              Wattevah...

              Comment

              • CapLeaker
                Leaking Member
                • Dec 2014
                • 8070
                • Canada

                #8
                Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

                CNM803 is not the LED output. Look again. This connector has PSon, BLon etc.

                280V on the main filter capacitor is not the correct voltage. It should be something like 311V at least. 220V x 1.414 = 311.08V

                Put the TV back together and run it with the backlights turned down and see if the TV runs longer.

                Comment

                • Dannyx
                  CertifiedAxhole
                  • Aug 2016
                  • 3912
                  • Romania

                  #9
                  Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

                  Originally posted by CapLeaker
                  CNM803 is not the LED output. Look again. This connector has PSon, BLon etc.

                  280V on the main filter capacitor is not the correct voltage. It should be something like 311V at least. 220V x 1.414 = 311.08V

                  Put the TV back together and run it with the backlights turned down and see if the TV runs longer.
                  Yes, you're right, my bad (wrong connector) - it's hard to tell when I don't have the board in front of me. Still, the same is true for that connector too: the 12V rail jumps up or down when the supply acts up. Will check the cap again tomorrow to make sure...it's very hard to diagnose something that's not directly in front of you. Thanks for your time so far
                  Wattevah...

                  Comment

                  • budm
                    Badcaps Legend
                    • Feb 2010
                    • 40746
                    • USA

                    #10
                    Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

                    So ALL the dcv outputs of the power supply are jumping up and down then, right?
                    Never stop learning
                    Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                    Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                    Inverter testing using old CFL:
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                    Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                    http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                    TV Factory reset codes listing:
                    http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                    Comment

                    • Dannyx
                      CertifiedAxhole
                      • Aug 2016
                      • 3912
                      • Romania

                      #11
                      Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

                      Originally posted by budm
                      So ALL the dcv outputs of the power supply are jumping up and down then, right?
                      Correct. The secondary falls and rises intermittently (even if very briefly before the normal 12v resumes).
                      Wattevah...

                      Comment

                      • budm
                        Badcaps Legend
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 40746
                        • USA

                        #12
                        Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

                        If the LED connector is not in place and running the board by itself again, they are still fluctuating?
                        I would inspect the solder joints on the board really well at this point first.
                        Never stop learning
                        Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                        Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                        Inverter testing using old CFL:
                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                        Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                        http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                        TV Factory reset codes listing:
                        http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                        Comment

                        • Dannyx
                          CertifiedAxhole
                          • Aug 2016
                          • 3912
                          • Romania

                          #13
                          Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

                          Originally posted by budm
                          If the LED connector is not in place and running the board by itself again, they are still fluctuating?
                          I would inspect the solder joints on the board really well at this point first.
                          You mean run the board with nothing connected to it, or just with the main board attached ? I haven't tried leaving it completely disconnected, but I DID try it with just the main board attached (while using a flashlight to see what the TV is doing, since there was no backlight) and after a short while, sure enough, it still power-cycled, indicating the issue is not with the LEDs like I initially thought. Will try leaving it completely floating to see what happens to the 12V rail. I have already checked what I believe to be most of the joints, except for the ones going to the 2 connectors (one for the LEDs and the other for the main board), which I ignored on the grounds that the issue is present even with nothing connected to those two connectors.
                          Wattevah...

                          Comment

                          • budm
                            Badcaps Legend
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 40746
                            • USA

                            #14
                            Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

                            Just the board by itself and nothing attached except the AC power.
                            Never stop learning
                            Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956

                            Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999

                            Inverter testing using old CFL:
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl

                            Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
                            http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/

                            TV Factory reset codes listing:
                            http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809

                            Comment

                            • Dannyx
                              CertifiedAxhole
                              • Aug 2016
                              • 3912
                              • Romania

                              #15
                              Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

                              Originally posted by budm
                              Just the board by itself and nothing attached except the AC power.
                              Will do that tmmoz. I expect the same thing to happen (save for that coil whine, of course, since there's no load on it).
                              Wattevah...

                              Comment

                              • CapLeaker
                                Leaking Member
                                • Dec 2014
                                • 8070
                                • Canada

                                #16
                                Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

                                Just to confirm: The voltages are jumping up and down, then shuts off? Did you try freezing (can of air upside down) / heating (hair dryer) parts of the PSU yet? See if you can make it run longer, etc.
                                Last edited by CapLeaker; 08-31-2016, 07:28 PM.

                                Comment

                                • Dannyx
                                  CertifiedAxhole
                                  • Aug 2016
                                  • 3912
                                  • Romania

                                  #17
                                  Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

                                  Originally posted by CapLeaker
                                  Just to confirm: The voltages are jumping up and down, then shuts off? Did you try freezing (can of air upside down) / heating (hair dryer) parts of the PSU yet? See if you can make it run longer, etc.
                                  I was going to try that as well (especially freezing the opto, see if it changes anything). Also, sometimes it shuts off entirely for a few seconds, other times it doesn't (just flickers then quickly resumes, without the volts going completely 0) - think of the lightbulb analogy I made in one of my other replies.
                                  Wattevah...

                                  Comment

                                  • Dannyx
                                    CertifiedAxhole
                                    • Aug 2016
                                    • 3912
                                    • Romania

                                    #18
                                    Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

                                    Originally posted by CapLeaker
                                    CNM803 is not the LED output. Look again. This connector has PSon, BLon etc.

                                    280V on the main filter capacitor is not the correct voltage. It should be something like 311V at least. 220V x 1.414 = 311.08V

                                    Put the TV back together and run it with the backlights turned down and see if the TV runs longer.
                                    Checked the main cap again and you're right: I'm reading 316V on it, which is correct, so the primary side seems to be working fine. I'll try freezing the opto next (I have the board on hand now, so I can try anything you guys suggest straight away).
                                    Wattevah...

                                    Comment

                                    • CapLeaker
                                      Leaking Member
                                      • Dec 2014
                                      • 8070
                                      • Canada

                                      #19
                                      Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

                                      I would put a oscilloscope on the secondary and make it scan way slow. Then heat and cool specific areas on the PSU and watch the screen.

                                      I have had a problem like this before on a dual voltage PSU for a phone system. It done the exact same thing. The both voltages would go up and down, then it would shut off.
                                      The culprit was an inductor on the secondary. Reflowing with solder didn't help. I had to take it out, clean the holes then resolder the inductor. There was no sign of a bad solder joint. I found it using my hot air soldering station.

                                      Comment

                                      • Dannyx
                                        CertifiedAxhole
                                        • Aug 2016
                                        • 3912
                                        • Romania

                                        #20
                                        Re: Samsung ue32h4510 turns on and off randomly (bad power board ?)

                                        Originally posted by CapLeaker
                                        I would put a oscilloscope on the secondary and make it scan way slow. Then heat and cool specific areas on the PSU and watch the screen.

                                        I have had a problem like this before on a dual voltage PSU for a phone system. It done the exact same thing. The both voltages would go up and down, then it would shut off.
                                        The culprit was an inductor on the secondary. Reflowing with solder didn't help. I had to take it out, clean the holes then resolder the inductor. There was no sign of a bad solder joint. I found it using my hot air soldering station.
                                        I don't have an oscillo. sadly Maybe one day....So you're saying you started heating up the board and when you came to that inductor it suddenly started working and that gave it away as the defective area ? I too have an inductor there as you can see, but it doesn't make sense, since that's part of the LED driver. Perhaps the same thing could happen to the main FET....will try messing around with the hot air station myself. I've already ordered a new supply (client's request), but I'll try fixing this one too nonetheless - I like a good challenge
                                        Wattevah...

                                        Comment

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