Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

[tom66]

So, Simon drove about 600 miles there and back to Poole to pick up a PDP-LX5090... I thought he was nuts... but it was an 8 blue blinker, so worth it.

It was that same 1.8V regulator on it. Replaced that and it works absolutely perfectly. Another 9G KURO saved.

Interestingly, the panel has about 22,000 hours on it (mine had 11,500 hrs) ... and not a lick of burn in. Has great black level performance and hardly any red tint - I suspect the previous owner has tweaked this panel, as all the voltages are adjusted from the nominal rating. They've done a good job, thankfully they've not reset the panel (which really makes for an awkward fix.)

Internal pics (first one of the reg causing all the issues):
http://i.imgur.com/8BmCFXN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tnXc3WI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/syyI7vh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jRzDgon.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/g37txzj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yDRE2Ae.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zEHZjQn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YvcVGuS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5PxCX1a.jpg

[Shinju]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

Awesome work!

I love the VT30, but I still want to own/audition a 9G Kuro!

[Shinju]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

I have always wondered what makes pioneer plasma better the on the rest, is it the quality of the parts (I assume yes) is is they have found a way to excite the gas more efficient and better then evey other plasma manufactor?

I am still pretty green on how plasma works on a deep level.

[ReeceyBurger123]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

Im getting one soon, going to put my pdp428xd down stairs and get this model for my personal tv in my room, good stuff

[tom66]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

I have always wondered what makes pioneer plasma better the on the rest, is it the quality of the parts (I assume yes) is is they have found a way to excite the gas more efficient and better then evey other plasma manufactor?

I am still pretty green on how plasma works on a deep level.

Pioneer had TONS of patents on their plasmas. They really invested deep in the R&D behind the main driver of picture quality which is BLACK LEVEL. If you do not have a good black level everything else goes out of the window: colour saturation, colour accuracy, image contrast, etc. KURO is the Japanese word for "blackness", "darkness".

High black level means a washed out image. What's amazing is the 9G Kuros achieved a black level of 0.0005cd/m^2. For comparison, the best LCDs got 0.08cd/m^2 but most were around 0.1-0.2cd/m^2 so this panel is 160x darker than the BEST LCD and yet can achieve ~120cd/m^2 of peak brightness STOCK (an LCD will hit 200-odd) and with the ABL tweak can go to about 170cd/m^2. That means an image contrast ratio of over 150,000:1. Realistically when you include leakage between pixels you're looking at around 80,000:1 contrast. Compared to an LCD around 1,000~3,000:1 it makes a WORLD of difference.

Pioneer drive the panels completely differently. I've scoped the output of one and I have never seen a plasma driven like that. Sure they have the conventional sub-fields and write/erase cycles... but things like the "set-up" and "set-down" ramps are completely different. They use unique waveforms I've never seen any other panel use before. More info HERE on conventional PDP operation:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25283

These waveforms are necessary to get the ions in the plasma ready to emit light. But, they cause undesired light emission - the reason plasma panels have a "backlight" which is more accurately called a "priming glow". Part of the reason Pioneer use unique waveforms is they invented a technology called "Crystal Emissive Layer", which is basically a material which massively improves panel stability by emitting more ions when struck with a low priming energy. Panel stability is important, because if you can get the panel to be more stable at lower priming levels, you can lower the black level without creating dead pixels, image retention etc.

How far ahead were Pio at the time they released the 9G FHD panels? Well, it took 4 years for Panasonic to release their 15G panels. The VT60 panels were measured around 0.0004cd/m^2 which finally dethroned the KURO for black level by being 20% darker - at that level a virtuallly invisible difference. Unfortunately, they really had to cut down on the brightness (energy saving), so the overall image contrast still remains unbeaten for Kuro sets. VT60s still are excellent TVs and I will seriously consider getting one, given they had improved performance in other areas (less image dithering, better motion response, and better TV features.)

Sadly, about half-way through 2009, Pioneer pulled the plug on their plasma division and sold their patents and factories to Panasonic. Sadly Pioneer simply couldn't keep up with Samsung/LG/etc and their massive price slashing. Being in the middle of the financial crisis didn't help either when you're trying to shift premium £3,000 TVs. There was talk of Pioneer making their glass in Panasonic's factories - or even using Panasonic panels in their sets (losing the image performance obviously) but sadly this evaporated and so they abandoned project KURO and the TV industry altogther.

[Eiji]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

Good to hear another Pioneer has been saved. Mine is still working great Tom

[mmartell]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

Any tips on tweaking the black level ?

[tom66]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

Any tips on tweaking the black level ?

Soon :-) Simon is going to bring his panel over to have it tweaked by me. Basically it's an iterative process, with the exact tweaks varying from panel to panel. You want to get the black level low, but at the same time you want to avoid artefacts. I was able to hit zero black on my panel (literally zero light output while the panel was still displaying an image.) The problem was that things had a pink tint to them if they moved so I had to raise the black level slightly.

[ben7]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

Soon :-) Simon is going to bring his panel over to have it tweaked by me. Basically it's an iterative process, with the exact tweaks varying from panel to panel. You want to get the black level low, but at the same time you want to avoid artefacts. I was able to hit zero black on my panel (literally zero light output while the panel was still displaying an image.) The problem was that things had a pink tint to them if they moved so I had to raise the black level slightly.

Interesting, what do you think causes the pink tint?!

[tom66]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

Interesting, what do you think causes the pink tint?!

Seems the green pixels get lazy (sometimes the tint goes a little blue too which is green and red pixels getting lazy) probably because they require more energy to discharge. Once they have discharged, they can discharge much more easily - so the red tint only appears when switching from black to white on some pixels.

Pioneer had a prototype true zero black ultra-thin PDP (9mm thick INCLUDING sustain boards; 14mm when PSU is added.) I think they had to change some design characteristics with the panel. The fact that their 9G panels were so close to getting to zero black just annoys me. I've seen how capable they were and then they pull out of the business. If they had just spent another year or so on the Kuro tech, maybe worked on 10G panels, wow, I think the panels would be OLED like yet enjoying the better colour accuracy that OLED will not be able to offer.

[mmartell]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

Soon :-)

Can't wait. I have this suspicion I have room for improvement as my previous Pioneer panel, a sixth gen, had as good or better blacks than this 8G.

[tom66]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

Can't wait. I have this suspicion I have room for improvement as my previous Pioneer panel, a sixth gen, had as good or better blacks than this 8G.

The problem a lot of Kuros had is that Pioneer got the compensation algorithms wrong, and as a result as the panels age the black level rises very fast often with a red tint. In reality the panels are capable of a lot more but they were too conservative. I've tweaked my panel to the level that when you first turn it on, you do see sparklies for about 5-10 seconds, then they go away. That's fine with me, but I suspect Pioneer's customers wouldn't otherwise accept that.

[dgorman77]

Appreciate its been a while.
I have a Kuro Krp-600 and its blinking blue 8 times but on the panel and not the media box.
Does the IRC replacement most people suggest work in this case or is it something in the panel itself ( power supply etc )
In south east london, so any recommendations for repairers would also be welcome.
Thx

So, Simon drove about 600 miles there and back to Poole to pick up a PDP-LX5090... I thought he was nuts... but it was an 8 blue blinker, so worth it.

It was that same 1.8V regulator on it. Replaced that and it works absolutely perfectly. Another 9G KURO saved.

Interestingly, the panel has about 22,000 hours on it (mine had 11,500 hrs) ... and not a lick of burn in. Has great black level performance and hardly any red tint - I suspect the previous owner has tweaked this panel, as all the voltages are adjusted from the nominal rating. They've done a good job, thankfully they've not reset the panel (which really makes for an awkward fix.)

Internal pics (first one of the reg causing all the issues):
http://i.imgur.com/8BmCFXN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tnXc3WI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/syyI7vh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jRzDgon.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/g37txzj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yDRE2Ae.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zEHZjQn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YvcVGuS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5PxCX1a.jpg

[tom66]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

Appreciate its been a while.
I have a Kuro Krp-600 and its blinking blue 8 times but on the panel and not the media box.
Does the IRC replacement most people suggest work in this case or is it something in the panel itself ( power supply etc )
In south east london, so any recommendations for repairers would also be welcome.
Thx

I have sent you a PM - I offer service on these units.

[rak355h]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

Hi, I also have this same issue. Love my Kuro PDP-LX5090, but it now has the dreaded 8 blue blinking lights. I'm not sure what I would go for next (is OLED better than a Plasma?) so in the meantime, I would prefer to carry on using my beloved Kuro.
I've done a bit of reading on this site, and it seems the IC regulator on the AV board should resolve the issue, but I'm not that confident a solderer to carry this out.
I was hoping that someone on this forum has the right skills and would be willing to travel to Leicester to fix the issue for me. If you could PM me with a rough cost then I would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance! Rakesh

[aniello68]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

Good moning friend i search new firmware for pdp lx5090
i have old version 103
yOU HAVE
THANKS

[ReeceyBurger123]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

Hey Tom thought I’d let you know, still have this Kuro up and running. It’s been used and abused daily for years, moved house 3 times and still looks good to the eye! It does need calibrating but I’ll seek help and learn it myself when it starts getting really worn out

[Katona78]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

Welcome everyone! I have a Pioneer krp 500A TV which unfortunately does not turn on. After switching on, the relay clicks but only the red LED flashes twice. I unplugged the X and Y drives but the red flashes twice in the same way. The box I tried with another display works perfectly. I hope you can help! Thanks in advance! Sorry for the poor English language skills

[ReeceyBurger123]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

Welcome everyone! I have a Pioneer krp 500A TV which unfortunately does not turn on. After switching on, the relay clicks but only the red LED flashes twice. I unplugged the X and Y drives but the red flashes twice in the same way. The box I tried with another display works perfectly. I hope you can help! Thanks in advance! Sorry for the poor English language skills

Check PSU output to Ydrive before it clicks off.

[Katona78]

Re: Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090 - Round II

I don't really understand instrumental measurement but I'll check it out with someone. I thought someone here on the forum had the same problem and knows specifically what the mistake is. Thanks for the suggestion and I look at the psu output of the Y drive