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Replacement for Sacon FZ Badcap... which one?

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    #1

    Replacement for Sacon FZ Badcap... which one?

    Hello there,
    i have a graphics card with 4 caps blown away. All of them are Sacon FZ.
    There are two types, and the datasheet is not very informative. What i have found out is this:

    Fist one:
    6,3V; 1500uF; Diameter 10mm; Length 12,5mm; Tan 0,24, Leakage 283,5 µA, Ripple 1800; Impedanz 0,022 Ohm

    Second:
    16V; 470uF; Diameter 8mm; Length 12mm; Tan 0,16, Leakage 225,6 µA, Ripple 1150; Impedanz 0,036 Ohm

    I know that caps should be used at right Voltage, because they are most effective at 75% of their nominal Voltage and a too high nominal V would degrease lifetime. The more the diameter, the longer they last, the lower is their ESR (theoretically). But have i take care of the "tan" which is a thing i do not understand, and also i don't know if a leakage should be high or low, same question for impedance.

    In my search i found three caps which seem to be the correct ones, could you please comment this?

    Replacement for the 1500uF:
    ========================
    RUBYCON 6.3ZL1500MEFC10X20
    PANASONIC EEUFK0J152
    PANASONIC EEUFM0J152


    Replacement for the 470uF:
    ========================
    Panasonic EEUFM0J152
    RUBYCON 6.3ZL1500MEFC10X20
    RUBYCON 16YXF470MEFC10X12.5
    RUBYCON 16ZLH470MEFC8X11.5
    RUBYCON 16ZLJ470M8X11.5

    Thank you!
    Thomas
    Tags: None
    #2
    Re: Replacement for Sacon FZ Badcap... which one?

    Originally posted by tt-web View Post
    I know that caps should be used at right Voltage, because they are most effective at 75% of their nominal Voltage and a too high nominal V would degrease lifetime.
    Um, no...
    That might have been true in like the 1940's and 1950's but not anymore.
    -
    You can use caps up to their rated voltage and it won't affect life. [Going over that is bad..]
    -
    No one [except me] says this but I wouldn't use caps at 10% or less of their rated voltage because it seems to me there wouldn't be enough leakage current to keep the oxide layer intact.

    What country are you in?
    - Helps in recommending parts sources.

    Off to look at your list.
    .........
    Last edited by PCBONEZ; 08-15-2011, 01:27 AM.
    Mann-Made Global Warming.
    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
    -
    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
    - Dr Seuss
    -
    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
    -

    Comment

      #3
      Re: Replacement for Sacon FZ Badcap... which one?

      More Ripple is better.
      Less ESR is better - as long as you don't go nuts with it.

      ~~~

      #1: 6.3v; 1500uF; 10x12.5mm; Ripple 1800 mA; Impedance[ESR] 0.022 Ohm

      #2: 16v; 470uF; 8x12mm; Ripple 1150 mA; Impedance[ESR] 0.036 Ohm

      For #1 the Panasonic EEUFM0J152 will work IF it isn't too tall.
      6.3v; 1500uF; 10x20mm; Ripple 2180 mA; Impedance[ESR] 0.019 Ohm

      For #2 all those listed are too far from the original spec.
      - Not low enough ESR and/or too low a Ripple rating.
      Even a 470uF/16v Panasonic FM has higher ESR.
      Going from 470uF to 1500uF is a bad idea. [Hoping that was a typo.]

      ~~~
      If you check the actual voltages you'll probably find 16v was over-kill to start with and you can use a lower voltage cap.
      - Gives you more options.

      Upgrading to polymer caps is also an option with FZ so long as you are careful choosing the new caps.
      Knowing the actual voltages will help with that too.
      .
      .
      As soon as I know where you're at I can offer source suggestions.
      .
      Mann-Made Global Warming.
      - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
      -
      Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
      - Dr Seuss
      -
      You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
      -

      Comment

        #4
        Re: Replacement for Sacon FZ Badcap... which one?

        Hi,
        so firstly thanks for your answers. So I am not able to say how much the actual voltage is so I would use the 16V again. I am sorry for the confusing text I wrote. There are two types of caps I want to replace. The first is 1500uF, the second is a 470uF. From your answers I guess that the caps are all good, as long as I take ones with the lowest ESR available. Is that true? I live in germany where it is not always easy to get good caps. I found a store with very good conditions called farnell. But I am open for any helpfully suggestions.
        At the moment I would prefer the Panasonic (EEUFM0J152 as replacement for the 1500uF and the RUBYCON (16ZLJ470M8X11.5 as repl. for the 470uF). They have a lifetime greater or equal 4000h at 105°C).

        Comment

          #5
          Re: Replacement for Sacon FZ Badcap... which one?

          No the caps are not all good.

          You don't have a good one for the 470uF.
          None of the 470uF you listed have low enough ESR.
          Most don't have enough for the Ripple Current rating either.

          The Lifetime rating is a fairly useless number but the explanation is long and I'm tired.
          .
          Mann-Made Global Warming.
          - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
          -
          Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
          - Dr Seuss
          -
          You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
          -

          Comment

            #6
            Re: Replacement for Sacon FZ Badcap... which one?

            Not Sam Youngs. EVGA switched from Sacon FZs to Sam Youngs and most of my Sam Youngs failed:



            At about the time I bought some EVGA FX-5200 graphics cards (free after rebate), I also bought a PNY FX-5200 card that I thought wasn't built nearly as well (much smaller heatsink, only half the capacitance), but that PNY card never bulged any caps -- all Sanyo WX caps.

            Comment

              #7
              Re: Replacement for Sacon FZ Badcap... which one?

              Argh.. bad news. I think I understand what you mean. I have read a lot about Ripple, impedance and lifetime. I'll keep on searching... maybe someone of you has a good idea which one i could take ?
              Thank you!

              Comment

                #8
                Re: Replacement for Sacon FZ Badcap... which one?

                Third time..

                As soon as I know where you're at I can offer source suggestions.
                .
                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                -
                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                - Dr Seuss
                -
                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                -

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: Replacement for Sacon FZ Badcap... which one?

                  Hi,
                  as I already said I live in Germany.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: Replacement for Sacon FZ Badcap... which one?

                    You have RS Components, Farnell, Badcaps.net ships to Germany, and if you want Samxon the member named Big Pope sells them out of Hong Kong.
                    .
                    Mann-Made Global Warming.
                    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                    -
                    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                    - Dr Seuss
                    -
                    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                    -

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: Replacement for Sacon FZ Badcap... which one?

                      Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
                      You have RS Components, Farnell, Badcaps.net ships to Germany, and if you want Samxon the member named Big Pope sells them out of Hong Kong.
                      .
                      Hello,
                      would you use Nichion caps? Or are they also "Bad-Caps"?
                      Thanx

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: Replacement for Sacon FZ Badcap... which one?

                        Nichicon is good stuff.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: Replacement for Sacon FZ Badcap... which one?

                          You might have heard bad on Nichicon over their HN and HM series which were defective from 2001-2004.
                          It was only those two series and only those dates. New ones are fine.

                          Those were pulled from and are ~LONG~ gone from the supply channels since late 2004 so unless you're buying really old caps from someone with a private stash it's not something to worry about.
                          .
                          Mann-Made Global Warming.
                          - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                          -
                          Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                          - Dr Seuss
                          -
                          You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                          -

                          Comment

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