Digital power factor correction

[PlainBill]

Re: Digital power factor correction

OH I KNOW!
-
We could require all new refrigerators to have 6" of insulation instead of the typical 2" because that motor with the sucky PF kicking on all the time in millions of refrigerators is hurting the power companies wallet.

Oh and another!
-
Take that power hog 50-200 watt video card you have to recycle and use the on-board instead.
[And if you didn't and you're hooting about PFC being green then you're a hypocrite.]

.

You don't get it!!!!

An electric motor is an inductive load, so current lags voltage. A switching power supply (PC, plasma TV, or whatever) is a capacitive load, so current leads voltage. The two compensate for one another.

Now a question. An incandescent light bulb is a resistive load. A traditional florescent light bulb (with an iron core ballast) is an inductive load. What kind of load does a CFL present? And are they going to add PFC to those, too?

PlainBill

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Digital power factor correction

You don't get it!!!!

An electric motor is an inductive load, so current lags voltage. A switching power supply (PC, plasma TV, or whatever) is a capacitive load, so current leads voltage. The two compensate for one another.

They can't compensate for each other if there is PFC is the PSU now can they...

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Digital power factor correction

CFL = Compact fluorescent lamp. It's just another shape of fluorescent lamp.
They usually use an electronic ballast but they aren't limited to it.

I think your assumption is wrong. [Though definitely an interesting point!]

"Traditional" florescent lights as well as CFLs use a lot more that one type of ballast including resistive, inductive and electronic ballasts with inverters.
Electronic ballasts which have been around since the 70's I think and have become more common over time.
When it comes to current products I *think* Iron core ballasts are only common in fixtures for tubes over 4 foot now.
[My last shop had 8' tubes. I hate those things!]

As to what kind of load it is you'd have to know what kind of ballast is in use.
With one as pictured you would have to know what [SMPS or Linear PS] is creating the 12 vDC to know what kind of load it is.



Then there are SMPS types:
https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...89b385be1a.pdf

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Digital power factor correction

You don't get it!!!!

LOL, no you don't get it. - It's called sarcasm.
I used to parallel [synchronize phases] and and shift loads between 2.5 MW 3 phase turbine generators on a 4160v grid as part of my job.

[everell]

Re: Digital power factor correction

LOL, no you don't get it. - It's called sarcasm.
I used to parallel [synchronize phases] and and shift loads between 2.5 MW 3 phase turbine generators on a 4160v grid as part of my job.

So what does that have to do with the need breed of APFC circuits using the new CS1500 super duper chip???

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Digital power factor correction

So what does that have to do with the need breed of APFC circuits using the new CS1500 super duper chip???

You don't understand how phase angles relate to PFC?
What do you think PFC does?
.

[Toasty]

Re: Digital power factor correction

>>I used to parallel [synchronize phases] <<

Light bulb?

[370forlife]

Re: Digital power factor correction

[everell]

Re: Digital power factor correction

Thank you 370forlife. Both articles were very interesting......and "informative".

I have been banging my head against the wall for the past several weeks trying to fix a AGI 400 watt power supply with APFC. It would blow out one of the PFC transistors on power up. I kept looking for problems on the output side, but it turns out the problem was in the APFC circuit.

The way I found the problem: I was curious as to the Inductance value of the booster coil for "typical" APFC circuit. So I removed the booster coil and measured it with a LCR meter. Inductance was 0.1 uHy. Should have been more than that! Unwound a few turns and found the short. Now I am suspicious that HEAT may be a problem for these booster coils in "cheap" power supplies. I have noticed that the ones I have worked on get very HOT. Do you think this is because of cheap lossy cores being used, or should one expect the coil to run superhot? Since these APFC circuits are designed for use in both US and Europe, do you think increasing inductance would reduce heat for APFC in the US?

[Toasty]

Re: Digital power factor correction

How does a hot coil make up for APFC? IIRC, PC said this before that the heating there wastes the energy, so what's the point of it to begin with?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Digital power factor correction

Sounds a bit like: 'real' 'simulated' Indian leather.

[everell]

Re: Digital power factor correction

How does a hot coil make up for APFC? IIRC, PC said this before that the heating there wastes the energy, so what's the point of it to begin with?

Marketing and sales says......more "efficient" power supply

[370forlife]

Re: Digital power factor correction

The coil is what is used to boost the voltage.

[ratdude747]

Re: Digital power factor correction

APFC=

A
Piece of
F**king
Crap!!!!!

[Toasty]

Re: Digital power factor correction

Marketing and sales says......more "efficient" power supply

Which goes right along with what PC said (again IIRC) from the other thread of 2 weeks ago, that that's all it is, for all intents and purposes... marketing.

So saving the energy, by changing the phasing, but heating the coil... saves what???

No pun intended...

[370forlife]

Re: Digital power factor correction

APFC can be used to generalize the quality of the power supply. That 680W that still has that little red switch probably isn't a 680W, though there are 700W non-APFC units. But even leadman has a APFC add-on board now.

So...uhhh, its good for, ummm...yeah I'm drawing a blank here. Only one that I can think of benefits is the power companies and the marketing departments. APFC!!!!!!!1!!one OMG THAT MAKES IT, LIKE, 8 TIMES MORE EFFICIENT!

They're gonna have a field day with "digital power factor correction"

[Toasty]

Re: Digital power factor correction

Thank you 370forlife. Both articles were very interesting......and "informative".

I have been banging my head against the wall for the past several weeks trying to fix a AGI 400 watt power supply with APFC. It would blow out one of the PFC transistors on power up. I kept looking for problems on the output side, but it turns out the problem was in the APFC circuit.

The way I found the problem: I was curious as to the Inductance value of the booster coil for "typical" APFC circuit. So I removed the booster coil and measured it with a LCR meter. Inductance was 0.1 uHy. Should have been more than that! Unwound a few turns and found the short. Now I am suspicious that HEAT may be a problem for these booster coils in "cheap" power supplies. I have noticed that the ones I have worked on get very HOT. Do you think this is because of cheap lossy cores being used, or should one expect the coil to run superhot? Since these APFC circuits are designed for use in both US and Europe, do you think increasing inductance would reduce heat for APFC in the US?

So when's the APFC bypass-mod coming to fruition??

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Digital power factor correction

Marketing and sales says......more "efficient" power supply

The word "efficient" is abused in advertising.
"More efficient" in what regard?
"More efficient" because 400w is less than 750w?
"More efficient" to you wallet because it's initial cost dirt cheap?
"More efficient" at removing money from your pocket once you have it?

~~
# = pounds mass
cid - cubic inch displacement.
gph = Gallons/Hour.

A 2000# car with a 150cid engine.
Uses 15gph but only 7.5gph actually moves the car.
[50% of the fuel moves the car.]

A 2000# car with a 300cid engine.
Uses 20gph and 15gph goes to actually move the car.
[75% of the fuel moves the car.]

Which one is more "efficient"??

They both do the same work.
The car with the 150cid uses less gas per mile.
The car with the 300cid wastes less gas to heat.

.

[everell]

Re: Digital power factor correction

So when's the APFC bypass-mod coming to fruition??

Politicians rule the world. The only thing I am expecting is for these politicians to legislate that the US will also go green and make a law requiring all new power supplies to have APFC. They will tell us that it makes power supplies more efficient, and show us the same ole bogus charts. Surely our politicians (the best paid politicians in the world) wouldn't lie to us?????

[Per Hansson]

Re: Digital power factor correction

But it does help consumers in one way
It makes the PSU full range input (that's only really useful if you move to a new country with another line voltage)

But the bigger plus is that the PSU can accommodate a large voltage sag without issue, take an example here in Sweden, we have 230VAC line voltage...

But a good APFC PSU has an input range of 90v > 264v
So our line voltage could sag 140v and the PSU would not break a sweat (just loose maybe 2>4% in efficiency)

That I think is nice, and also the fact that the primary capacitor is operating at a higher voltage, generally 385VAC, so it will store more current, and therefore the PSU will be better at handling a complete brownout that lats a few milliseconds, like when a UPS switches to battery or there is a genuine such short power failure (atleast in my experience those are quite common, I can show you a log from my UPS )