Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

The "350W" unit is 8 years old, decent lifetime. IMO, the rectifier heatsink is appropriate for 300W or less. The cores for the O/P inductors are Micrometals -26 material, better for switch frequencies below 50KHz. The heatsinks for the 300W unit seem similar in size. The O/P inductor cores are Micrometals -52 material, better than -26 material for higher switch frequencies. Didn't notice any datecodes on the 300W unit. The LM358 is a venerable 8-pin dual GP op-amp; the LM393 is a venerable 8-pin dual GP comparator; both have been in electronics longer than I have.

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

There are two rectifiers on the +5V rail, both capable of 30A of their own if I remember these units, so there is better efficiency on this rail. Also as you can notice, FSP tends to screw the heatsinsk to the supply casing, it can dissipate couple more watts.

[tom66]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

OK, here's another look at the 350W FSP.

It actually has three bulging Teapo and one bulging Jamicon. I didn't see under the cabling loom there was one rather large one, and another small one. The one I first saw was quite small, but definitely bad too. So, umm, Teapo... I'm not a fan.

And yeah, that Jamicon is real bad, that's definitely the label on it... funny eh. I'll have to pull it soon to see if it's gone pop underneath.

Jamicon is TM series. Can't see the series on the Teapo, but if it helps, the small ones are brown, and the larger one is a pale blue.

The pale blue Teapo is the 5V cap after the pi filter, it's 1000uF 10V. Jamicon is 2700uF 16V, and appears to be for the 12V line, especially due to the ripple.

Soldering quality is not great, I found at least two cracked joints, around the minimum load resistor for the 12V.

[tom66]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

And yet, there's even more! If you buy today, we'll throw in this stunning example of how looking through the vents to get an idea of quality -- is a Bad Idea!

Dell 250W OEM (previously mistakenly listed as 170W)
12V @ 14A, 5V @ 22A, 3.3V @ 18A, 5VSB @ 2A

So, looking through the vents, I saw one Nichicon capacitor, and another looking a lot like one. However, when I opened it, I found, alas, I had been fooled! Indeed, it used Nichicon primaries, and that one cap by the side was also a Nichicon. But the rest? Ltec! The very same company at the heart of the bad capacitor plague.

This appears to be a Newton power supply (written on PSU.) Aren't Newton the same as Delta now?

This one also has no PFC at all. Not passive or active.

Pretty well built for 250W, too.

It's a single switch forward topology, from what I can see.

[Wester547]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

If you don't mind me asking, Tom, what's the model number of it and its date code? And what are the secondary rectifiers, and the main switcher? ^^; And does it say made in China or made in Thailand on the label? I'm guessing the fan is a KD1208PTS1H.

[tom66]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

If you don't mind me asking, Tom, what's the model number of it and its date code? And what are the secondary rectifiers, and the main switcher? ^^; And does it say made in China or made in Thailand on the label? I'm guessing the fan is a KD1208PTS1H.

Model NPS-250KB. Date code 0313 (13th week 2003?)

Can't see rectifiers and FET, I would have to desolder them. (No soldering equipment at present, and I'm trying to preserve these PSUs.) Main switcher is in TO-3P though, which seems good for 250W.

Made in China.

Fan is Sunon KD1208PTS1 (no "H".)

[Wester547]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I think I know why it has all Ltec mostly - that period was around the time where Newton Power transistioned from using mostly Japanese capacitors to Taiwanese capacitors. Back in 1998-2001, they used mostly Nichicon/Rubycon/Chemicon with some select Taicon and Ltec. And well, I don't desolder the components in my PSUs to see what they are either, I just wear my glasses and stick a good flashlight onto them, and that seems to do the trick (even if it requires bending the heatsink back a tad). :P

I spotted a small 85C Rubycon capacitor on the secondary... that's nothing new as I saw the same mistake in a NPS-200PB-73M I have that's made in Thailand and has a datecode of August 10th, 2000 (Revision 3). However, that PSU has a very powerful fan (so powerful in fact that it will make the whole case vibrate even whilst temperature-controlled by way of harsh magnetic impulses the bearing assembly of that Sunon fan employs) and very thick heatsink (and probably overbuilt rectifiers and very good output/input filtering, so the components are less stressed) so I think it would last a while even with Ltec on the secondary.

As for Newton Power, they were a division owned by Delta but I'm not sure if they make PSUs anymore. Oh, and it's 170W for +5V/+3.3V combined. :P

[tom66]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I tried to look at the rectifiers, but I don't have a powerful torch in my dorm... it's pretty difficult trying to see them.

No Rubycons on this model. All the small caps are black and gold, and I'm not sure if they are Ltec, but they do look like them.

[Wester547]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

It's probably a Nichicon, then - I see "VR" text on it - probably the VR series - a 100uF/16V general purpose capacitor rated at 85C. The black and gold capacitors (the small ones) are probably Ltec TK (also general purpose). It's generally inapt to have 85C capacitors on the secondary since they're usually general purpose as stated before me but a PSU that well designed probably makes it work.

[tom66]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

It's probably a Nichicon, then - I see "VR" text on it - probably the VR series - a 100uF/16V general purpose capacitor rated at 85C. The black and gold capacitors (the small ones) are probably Ltec TK (also general purpose). It's generally inapt to have 85C capacitors on the secondary since they're usually general purpose as stated before me but a PSU that well designed probably makes it work.

You'd normally be right but they're just decoupling parts of the supply logic. Nothing to worry about there, there will be very little ripple current through them. There's only one large Nichicon secondary and two Nichicon primaries. Rest are crappy Ltec mostly.

EDIT: I see that light blue cap. It might be a Nichicon, they have used that colour before...

[ben7]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Just went on a trip to north NJ today.

Came back with a bad PSU board picked from a box. Obviously, bulging caps, tiny heatsinks, and more surprises to come!

[Pentium4]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Just went on a trip to north NJ today.

Came back with a bad PSU board picked from a box. Obviously, bulging caps, tiny heatsinks, and more surprises to come!

Do share

Got a PowerMan here. usually they're pretty good but this one is disappointing. Mainly because of the ERL-28 transformer. I have another PM with the same topology with (I think) an ERL-35. Replace it with that and recap it and I got a good PSU here! It has a 6 pin PCI-E connector too.

[c_hegge]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Other than the transformer, it looks Identical to the 400W IP-S400CQ2-0. I recently reviewed one, and it delivered 480W in spec.

[Pentium4]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Other than the transformer, it looks Identical to the 400W IP-S400CQ2-0. I recently reviewed one, and it delivered 480W in spec.

Yeah I thought it was strange cause I've never seen one so small in this model. That's good to hear though, what size transformer delivered that much in spec?

[Wester547]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I tried to look at the rectifiers, but I don't have a powerful torch in my dorm... it's pretty difficult trying to see them.

One last question... just out of curiosity, how many rectifiers did you see on the secondary? ^^;

[c_hegge]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

yeah i thought it was strange cause i've never seen one so small in this model. That's good to hear though, what size transformer delivered that much in spec?

It was an ERL-35

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Do share

Got a PowerMan here. usually they're pretty good but this one is disappointing. Mainly because of the ERL-28 transformer. I have another PM with the same topology with (I think) an ERL-35. Replace it with that and recap it and I got a good PSU here! It has a 6 pin PCI-E connector too.

Like those heatsinks

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Prepare your vomit pail

This is older revision, I will also talk about newer one which I got to my hands a year ago. This thing is still sold for like 24 USD/19 Eur incl. VAT. I tried to get local inspection to forbid that, you will see how many things it violates, but I think the „engineer“ dealing with me was both morron and on paycheck of the manufacturer.

Pic 1 and 2 shows nothing spectacular, just remember the values

Pic 3 - overall looks. This thing even has PFC, the newer revision got absolutelly tiny coil and ceramic cap - most likely PFC imitation, usefull for 5 W max PSU. According to inspection, PFC is not a must, the European norm actually talks about harmonics radiation - you can use just good ol' input filtration for this! No PFC is required in EU! Thats common mistake from those who actualyl never read the norm But when they write PFC in the name, there should be one, right

Anyway, filtration is on daguhter board, but nobody would be harmed if they used the free spots too. Thermistor and varistors nowhere to be found. I will add all the things missing. Newer revision actually has two varistors.

Tiny diodes, newer version even has rectifier, but 2 A labeled with rubber electrodes. The things is really small and starts dropping current at just 50 °C. Basically no difference here.

Input caps are 470 uF, Fhy, never ever heard of that. Never revision has similar crap. Transistors are Toba T3866 and T13007-R. Found only bullshit, no actuall datasheet. Transistors seem OK, both heatsinsk really thin (2 mm) and tiny.

Ordinary diode on +5 V SB. 20A schottky for +5 V, 12A fast-recovery for +12 V and 10A schottky for +3,3 V. Do you still remember the values from pic 1? But according to inspection: it is OK, the values on casing are just peak ones, manufacturer cannot expect you will connect it somewhere else than ordinary computer so it does not need to provide the wattage specified for longer period of time (longer than like 1 second).

Only coils there are on +3,3 V rail, otherwise plain wire or stuff. Notice the termistor on common coil - seems that rectifiers are not the hottest things in this PSU, considering no coils and small Asia'X caps -5 V rail is not occupied by components

Overall soldering quality is mediocre, PCB is not worst. Newer revision has even thinner PCB and casing. They most likely have one engineer for researching how these things can be cheaper because I found something new every time in there

I will dig out this post of mine (No. 700 in this thread if you wanna the pictures).

Been playing arround with my new loader and clamp meter for a while. I have succesfully done more or less complete rebuilt of this thing some time ago. It should now be capable of it's rated power. One thing I have noticed is that it seems to HAVE some kind of protection despite how crappy it looks. The thing is, it sits on the least important rails - +3,3 and +5 V I have been able to squeeze only arround 130 W combined from these rails, than it shuts down.

On the other hand, it really is able to provide 15 A for 12V power-hungry systems (well, plus some minor load on +5 V from fan). Voltmeter does not show any crossloading when loading 15A on that rail ONLY.

Will try to do some starting review on this thing, stay tuned for more