Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

[Pentium4]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

The only thing of acceptable quality in that Allied PSU is probably the heatsinks and Pentium4's recap job. The heatsinks at least aren't finless. Other than that it looks of sheer tripe.

Not to be redundant, but attached is a better look at the PSU I posted in May. These images aren't mine but images of the PSU found on a Google image search link. The PSU in question is a (RoHS compliant, from the logo on the label) Hipro 300W, or a HP-P3527F3. No PFC in this PSU and only 470uF/200V primary capacitors (Teapo @ 85C), with otherwise what looks to be a mingling of Teapo, (maybe) Su'scon, Ltec, and (maybe) G-Luxon capacitors. There's 32A on the 5V rail, 20A on the 3.3V rail, 16A on the 12V rail, 0.8A on the -12V rail, 0.3A on the -5V rail, and 3A on the 5VSB rail. 165W is the combined wattage of the 5V and 3.3V rails and 280W is the combined wattage of the 12V, 3.3V, and 5V rails together. It does say maximum output 300W but nowhere on the label does it say that continuous. The fan looks to me like it's a 80mm (80x80x25/12VDC) ADDA sleeve bearing (I didn't check, as yet, but probably a medium speed from what the airflow feels like from the grille so I'm guessing that means 2440RPM/31.4CFM and a static air pressure of .114"). Also, my 20-pin connector is not sleeved like the one in the added image. And I'm not sure the date on the image is correct either (if this PSU is RoHS compliant it'd have to be from 2005 or 2006). Does this PSU look underspec'd or subpar to anyone for one rated at 300W (right now it's powering a Pentium 4 2.66 GHz w/1GB of DDR266 RAM, a 40GB Seagate/80GB Samsung, an underclocked Radeon 9500 Pro, a Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer, a Promise Fasttrak ATA100 card, a floppy drive, a 2450RPM/80mm/33CFM AVC sleeve bearing case fan, and two DVD-+RWs)?

And it has a pretty good transient filtering stage The only reason I'm using it is because it has such a low load to power. I have a Hipro with the same exact specs on the label as yours, but it has 470uf 200V Elite caps on the primary, all the rest are Teapo. Mine was manufactured in May, 2007. They're good little supplies. Efficiency is meh, I got 72%-76% out of mine. It powered a Pentium D, 2GB RAM, 7300GT, and 3 hard drives no problem for over a year, other rigs it was in used less power and it's still kicking.

[dmill89]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

The only thing of acceptable quality (EDIT: besides the transient filtering stage) in that Allied PSU is probably the heatsinks and Pentium4's recap job. The heatsinks at least aren't finless. Other than that it looks of sheer tripe.

Not to be redundant, but attached is a better look at the PSU I posted in May. These images aren't mine but images of the PSU found on a Google image search link. The PSU in question is a (RoHS compliant, from the logo on the label) Hipro 300W, or a HP-P3527F3. No PFC in this PSU and only 470uF/200V primary capacitors (Teapo @ 85C), with otherwise what looks to be a mingling of Teapo, (maybe) Su'scon, Ltec, and (maybe) G-Luxon capacitors. There's 32A on the 5V rail, 20A on the 3.3V rail, 16A on the 12V rail, 0.8A on the -12V rail, 0.3A on the -5V rail, and 3A on the 5VSB rail. 165W is the combined wattage of the 5V and 3.3V rails and 280W is the combined wattage of the 12V, 3.3V, and 5V rails together. It does say maximum output 300W but nowhere on the label does it say that continuous. The fan looks to me like it's a 80mm (80x80x25/12VDC) ADDA sleeve bearing (I didn't check, as yet, but probably a medium speed from what the airflow feels like from the grille so I'm guessing that means 2440RPM/31.4CFM and a static air pressure of .114"). Also, my 20-pin connector is not sleeved like the one in the added image. And I'm not sure the date on the image is correct either (if this PSU is RoHS compliant it'd have to be from 2005 or 2006). Does this PSU look underspec'd or subpar to anyone for one rated at 300W (right now it's powering a Pentium 4 2.66 GHz w/1GB of DDR266 RAM, a 40GB Seagate/80GB Samsung, an underclocked Radeon 9500 Pro, a Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer, a Promise Fasttrak ATA100 card, a floppy drive, a 2450RPM/80mm/33CFM AVC sleeve bearing case fan, and two DVD-+RWs)?

That is not as overbuilt as older HiPros were but it should handle its rating just fine. At 100% load that system is right at the limit of that PSU, however few systems run at 100% load all the time. Unless you do hardcore gaming or graphics/video editing (these would be virtually impossible give the age and specs of that system) you should be ok.

[Wester547]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

^ So you think it's more like 275W continuous, 300W max? Or 250W continuous (just to clarify, that Pentium 4 is a Northwood)? And I had a feeling the efficiency was in the 70% range. And either the other caps in my Hipro are Elite (in lieu of Ltec), now that it was mentioned. Then again, maybe they're all Teapo, like P4's. Curious though, why are primary (or input) capacitors less likely to fail than secondary (output) ones even from shoddy brands?

[Agent24]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I think those cheap Allied\Deer\Hyena etc PSUs don't have very good overload protection and they won't shut down, until you overload them enough to blow them up, so it may not be easy to tell if you're running them too hard.

Aside from that, the lame capacitors and the lame efficiency, they work OK.

Put simply, you could do worse.

[dmill89]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

^ So you think it's more like 275W continuous, 300W max? Or 250W continuous (just to clarify, that Pentium 4 is a Northwood)? And I had a feeling the efficiency was in the 70% range. And either the other caps in my Hipro are Elite (in lieu of Ltec), now that it was mentioned. Then again, maybe they're all Teapo, like P4's. Curious though, why are primary (or input) capacitors less likely to fail than secondary (output) ones even from shoddy brands?

According to eXtreme PSU calculator calculates that system at around 270w under 100% load, I usually add at least 10% to their number just for a cushion so that comes to right about 300w so that HiPro PSU is right at the minimum you should have for that application. That system will likely only draw around 150w under normal circumstances. The CPU is 89w TDP and will likely be under at least a 50% load under normal given its age and lack of power, Figure another 30-50w for the AGP video card but only under graphically intense applications probably ~20w under normal applications such as web browsing, figure another 20-50w or so for the ancillary components (depending on load), and 10w ea. for the HDDs and ODDs but only when they are being used. You will only get near 100% load under multi-tasking where all devices are in use such as playing a game, while running a virus scan and copying a CD/DVD. On a single core system as old as that such multi-tasking would be almost impossible and would likely lead to a very poor performance or a system lockup before the PSU would have a chance to become really stressed. Just watch the caps on the secondary, they aren't the best brands and may eventually fail. Also all HiPros I've seen had good overload protection so if you do ever overload the PSU it should shut down in a controled manner.

[Wester547]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

By accordance of Intel's site, the P4 2.66 GHz Northwood's TDP is 66.1W (or 66.5?) max. I was of the impression that it wouldn't pull more than 70W total. And honestly, I don't use that system often at all, so I'm not worried about it failing, I just have it as something to mess around with now and then. ^^; It doesn't even see 10 hours of usage per week (maybe 1 or 2 at the most, if it's even used in any week). That PSU has had only 9 months of 10/7 usage up until now.

And I probably won't run 3D games on it much (least not without underclocking the card and capping the frame rate) since the 9500 Pro's stock (yellow) thermal paste does not handle high temperatures well. And even when I do run 3D games I usually use a 30FPS cap (so I doubt even the CPU is at its max TDP at that point given the games I run on it are from around 2000 or before).

Based on how that PSU built though I honestly think it's more like 300W max, 270W continuous, or something like (which isn't bad). On an old system like that the 3.3W/5V rail would likely be more stressed (I can't see anything besides the CPU putting much stress on the 12V rail).

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Does this PSU look underspec'd or subpar to anyone for one rated at 300W (right now it's powering a Pentium 4 2.66 GHz w/1GB of DDR266 RAM, a 40GB Seagate/80GB Samsung, an underclocked Radeon 9500 Pro, a Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer, a Promise Fasttrak ATA100 card, a floppy drive, a 2450RPM/80mm/33CFM AVC sleeve bearing case fan, and two DVD-+RWs)?

Should be more than enough for that setup. That P4 Northwood CPU is 66W TDP (and consumes no more than 76W under full load). The Radeon 9500 video card is the other big power consumer - about 50W under full load and 30W idle. I'd say your computer uses no more than 120 to 130W under full load, if even that much. With a 75% typical efficiency, it will be pulling ~160W from the wall - so you're nowhere near it's full load. That eXtreme PSU calculator is completely unrealistic.

I say let your Radeon 9500 run at full load. Worried about overheating?? - then change that yellow gunky compound. Underclocking it won't help that much. You just need to get rid of the yellow compound.

[Wester547]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I'm sure undervolting would help more, though that's not an option. And well, the thing is, I noticed that the heatsink on that card felt much, much cooler (as well as the RAM sinkless chips) when I downclocked it from 275/270 MHz to 180/180 MHz and let it run at full load (though it started displaying artifacts when I went below 132/132 MHz so obviously there is a range even when underclocking that the card can handle). Given that it's heat that does away with that yellow gunk more I'd think that'd help at least a bit. ^^; Of course, it'll only prolong the eventual hardening of that thermal paste. That heatsink though does not look like it'd be easy to get off at all (I'm sure there's a way but I don't want to permanently rip the heatsink off the card), much less put back on (where as other cards I have just let you screw the heatsink off and on). Not saying it can't be done, just an observation.

And I'm sure the PSU can handle that setup. It does get a bit warm at the grille intake after a while of use, though, which to me suggests that it does not have fantastic cooling given that the heat output of that system isn't much.

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

If the Radeon 9500 heat sink is anything like the 9700/9700 Pro, there should be just push-pins or some other similar mechanism holding the heat sink in place. If the heat sink doesn't come off after loosening the push pins, then the yellow gunk has likely hardened already - in which case you just heat up the heat sink with a hair drier or a heat gun a little bit and it should come off fairly easily by twisting the heat sink back and forth. Do not try to pull it or pry it!
If it doesn't come off, try with a little more heat (but not so much that you can't even touch the heat sink).

[Wester547]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

It's the Radeon 9500 Pro, which is just a downclocked R300 with its bus width cut in half, so it's practically the same (though that particular card was short-lived and soon superceded by the Radeon 9600 Pro/XT so finding a replacement especially this far down the road would not be easy). 30W is a bit high for idle but since the 9500 Pro does not have 2D clocks, I can see how that would be. And wow.... that's a tough decision. Either I change the thermal paste now or lose my chance to do it with guaranteed prospect whilst it hardens. :o The ADDA hyprobearing fan slowing down over time wouldn't help (though it hasn't yet, but I've witnessed that happen on a GeForce 2 GTS that had an older but similar fan, whose heatsink because of such was too hot to touch even at idle unless I severely downclocked it), but that would be far easier to replace.

I did not find that I was able to "push" the pins when I tried to take it off, but the heatsink still gets hot at full load, denoting that the thermal compound has not hardened (completely) yet. Needless to say, thanks for the suggestion. Not to rant on too much, I figured that I had an average (but decent) PSU in here and that it was probably enough. I noticed there seemed to be only two transformers between the heatsinks, though (for better or worse - I've read three is the usual amount in a PSU). And there's only one more thing that concerns me about the PSU I posted. I'm not sure if this is the correct way to calculate, but if I say, loaded the 5V rail to its full rating (160W/32A), and if the maximum combined wattage for the 3.3V rail and 5V rails is 165W, wouldn't that only leave 5W for the 3.3v rail to provide (165W - 160W = 5W.... or only 1.5A!?).... likewise, loading the 3.3V rail to its full rating, 66W (20A) brings the 5V rail down to 99W/~20A (or 19.8A), thus giving the 99W+66W=165W combined wattage. Or does it not work that way at all?

[dmill89]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

By accordance of Intel's site, the P4 2.66 GHz Northwood's TDP is 66.1W (or 66.5?) max. I was of the impression that it wouldn't pull more than 70W total.

Sorry I missed the part about it being a Northwood, I thought it was a 2.66ghz Prescott that's where the 89w comes from. You are correct a Northwood would draw 70w or less.

[Pentium4]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

So what happened to the discussions about power supplies?

[mariushm]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Nexus Q

Panasonic FM , UCC KXG ...





Teardown here at ifixit : http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nexus-Q-Teardown/9636/1

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Almost honestly spec'd LC, is that even possible?!?!

Don't notice the caps, it is after recap several years ago. Also the filtration was not all there originaly, but the minimum required was there (well, besides the varistors which I will add now).

It's labeled power is 235 W MAX, 20 A on +5 V, 7 A on +12 V, 0,5 A on both -5 and -12 V, 12 A on +3,3 V and 1 A on +5 V SB. Well, off course it won't do it on 115 V, but on 230 V it coudl work. There is original probably 4 A bridge rectifier, 330 uF caps, which could be higher, but together with 35 size transformer and 13007 it may work.

On secondary, only underrated is 16A shottky (!) on +5 V. Than 10A shottky follows on +12 V and 12A fast recovery on +3,3 V. Guess what, theres 1,5Avoltage regulator on the heatsink for +5 V SB

This si best LC I have seen so far. ADT ADT-2018 rated.

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Could somebody merge?

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

That is the old Deer 230W platform, i have one around here somewhere that says Deer not L&C but otherwise is the same (including the shape of the heatsinks). About the only one which won't blow up your motherboard if 5vsb goes bad, thanks to that 7805 regulator.

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

This si best LC I have seen so far.

Maybe.
Just make sure to change the 5VSB critical cap on the primary side near the heat sink. It's a small 22uF 25V cap. I can see there's already heat damage on your board so that cap may have started failing already. This causes over-voltage on the secondary of the 5VSB. The 7805 regulator will protect the motherboard from damage, but the 15V supply for the 494 PWM controller may go over-voltage and take out (or blow up) a small 47uF 50V cap on the secondary.
See my post here with the same PSU with that cap exploded:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...&postcount=489

It's the Radeon 9500 Pro, which is just a downclocked R300 with its bus width cut in half, so it's practically the same (though that particular card was short-lived and soon superceded by the Radeon 9600 Pro/XT so finding a replacement especially this far down the road would not be easy)

I got 4 of them revived and have 3 more waiting revival. I don't think I'll use more than 3.

[Jooo]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Another generic PSU, GTA-250W
This is a working unit, although the ATX connector is burned - maybe someone was drinking too much juice from the 5V line.
All capacitors are JPCON.

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I'm betting more on crap connectors than excess power draw. Other than that, it looks pretty beefy for 250W. What are the secondary rectifiers?

[b700029]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Looks very similar to that L&C above, down to the 7805 for +5VSB.