Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

More trustworthy? With Canicon caps? HA! You almost got me conned.

Minor details .
Just take a look at the input filter, the fan, the fan controller...

Unit was 12 years old and still in use a week before shooting that picture btw...

[Compgeke]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Here's something a bit different than the normal computer PSU, a Motorola\Vesta\who knows who else "Power Module". Designed for a 911 phone system of sorts, it supplies +5V, -48V and -96V at who knows what current.

Wasn't a cheap thing new, the 2005 Motorola catalog advertises it at $2730.


Anyway, onward. It's based on some sort of all in one power modules. Who made them or what they are, I have no idea. I'd have to desolder them to find out and that's too much effort.















Full res images here: https://imgur.com/a/9IpjM

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Pretty sure those DC-DC modules are not Vicor, unless they are a series that wasn't around in the mid 90s.

[pfrcom]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Thermaltake Toughpower 1200 for experts' opinion

Seems well built - using Polymers and Chemicon electrolytic

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Looks amazing

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Thermaltake Toughpower 1200 for experts' opinion

2x 600W, not 1200

[Dan81]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

2x 600W, not 1200

It seems they made 2 PSUs on one PCB, each doing 600W, so that "could" output 1200W.

I said "could" because it depends if each PSU can do 600W continuous.

[dmill89]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

2x 600W, not 1200

It seems they made 2 PSUs on one PCB, each doing 600W, so that "could" output 1200W.

I said "could" because it depends if each PSU can do 600W continuous.

Yep, not exactly an original design either, the PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 1200W (and the 1KW model that preceded it) used two 600W PSUs, though in the PCP&C each PSU is on its own separate daughterboard.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

That's how 1000W+ PSU was done at the time (around 2006-2008 or so)...

The Difference is that in some designs you couldn't see the dual PSU Design well, in others (like those two) its more obvious.


AFAIR my ST65ZF also is of those 'Dual PSU' Designs...

[Pentium4]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Very interesting unit. With those caps it shouldn't have any issues for a long time!

[dmill89]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

HiPros old( HP-D2537F3R) and new(ish)(H265AM-00).

Here are a couple similarly rated HiPro (Chicony) PSUs about a decade apart:




First the old HP-D2537F3R (rated 250W):
Primary:


Secondary:


Load test 12V@13A, 5V@10A 3.3V@12A (246W total)
Voltages:
12V: 11.868V


5V: 5.1954V


3.3V: 3.3570V


Oscilloscope shoots (scale set to 20mV per division, same load):
12V:


5V:


3.3V:


Efficency about 78%:



and the new(ish) H265AM-00 (rated 265W):
Primary:



Secondary:


Load test 12V@13A, 5V@10A 3.3V@12A (246W total)
Voltages:
12V: 12.084V


5V: 4.9751V


3.3V: 3.3976V


Oscilloscope shoots (scale set to 20mV per division, same load):
12V:


5V:


3.3V:


Efficency also about 78% (and surprisingly very slightly worse than the HP-D2537F3R):

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Very interesting unit. With those caps it shouldn't have any issues for a long time!

Maybe.
The design complexity of these units sometimes leads to an early downfall, especially the APFC circuit, it seems.

HiPros old( HP-D2537F3R) and new(ish)(H265AM-00).

Here are a couple similarly rated HiPro (Chicony) PSUs about a decade apart:
...

Oh, I'll take the HP-D2537F3R no doubt. The newer HiPro (H265AM-00), has APFC with Teapo as the main filter... ugh, my hopes aren't too high for it. Also, if I remember correctly, that model (or a very similar one) even had problems with exploding snubber cap. If that's not enough to sway me, look at the scope shots: the HP-D2537F3R has much cleaner outputs, thanks to its over-sized output caps (not to mention it's a breeze to find replacement caps for an oldschool HiPro like that, which usually can easily accommodate 12.5 mm caps, even in spots meant for 10 mm diameter caps).

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Something new:


I find the Transformer quite intriguing...

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I find the Transformer quite intriguing...

Looks pretty small. The main supply probably operates at really high frequency, though, so I imagine that's what allows it to be so small and still deliver its stated power.

That said, do you have a label shot of the unit? Just curious who made the PSU and how much juice it's rated for.

All in all, looks pretty much just like any other double-forward single 12V-design of today. And minor rails appear to be DC-DC buck regulated (again, as usual).

Not a fan of the all-black colors, though. Sooo boring nowadays! At least the PCB is not black on the bottom side too (I hate working on black PCBs.)

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Looks pretty small. The main supply probably operates at really high frequency, though, so I imagine that's what allows it to be so small and still deliver its stated power.

Well, yeah.
Its an LLC-Resonant mode Converter.
So I'd expect it to operate between 400kHz and 1MHz, maybe 2.

And I don't know if you see it on the Pictures but the Secondary Windings from the Transformer are soldered directly to the additional Board, where the +12V Rectifiers are.

That said, do you have a label shot of the unit? Just curious who made the PSU and how much juice it's rated for.

Thats the 550W version of the Cougar GX-F, made by HEC/Compucase.

All in all, looks pretty much just like any other double-forward single 12V-design of today. And minor rails appear to be DC-DC buck regulated (again, as usual).

Ähm, its not Double-Forward because no Coil on the Secondary.
But another one right next to the main Transformer.

That's how you can distinguish an LLC-Resonant Mode thingy from other topologys.

Not a fan of the all-black colors, though. Sooo boring nowadays! At least the PCB is not black on the bottom side too (I hate working on black PCBs.)

Yeah and the interesting/great thing:
Its a Single Layer Board.

Another Interesting points:
The huge 1000uF/16V Polymer caps
The Enormous (for a 550W) 470uF/400V Main Cap.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Well, yeah.
Its an LLC-Resonant mode Converter.
So I'd expect it to operate between 400kHz and 1MHz, maybe 2.

ARGH, that's the usual operation frequency of the DC-DC modules.

The isolated part operates in a range of maybe 50kHz or so, maybe even more than that.

[pdavid]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

VIP ST-235ATX 250W ATX.
After 20 years of service it was time to retire this unit. It won't start anymore.

I'm not sure who the OEM is but that XF marking on the main transformer and those stickers are something I see from time to time. The 555 based fan controler is familiar too.
I was really impressed to find a TOP210 in such an old noname unit.

No PFC
Primary rectification: 4x IN5406
Primary capacitors: 2x 220uf Capxon
Primary switchers: 2x E13007 ;half bridge topology
Standby IC: TOP210
35mm size center tapped main trafo
5V rectifier: S30SC4M
12V rectifier: S10C40C
3.3V rectifier: S20C30C
-12V IC: L7912CV
-5V current stabilizer winding + FR152 diode
5V standby diode: can't see the markings...

Nice fan controller circuit.

Wires are awg18 thick on mb and peripheral cables. Was good enough for some pentium 2 office machine that runs nothing but word97 and solitare...

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Thats the 550W version of the Cougar GX-F, made by HEC/Compucase.

Impressive.
HEC/Compucase build quality has definitely stepped it up a few notches from what I mostly saw from them a decade ago.

Ähm, its not Double-Forward because no Coil on the Secondary.
But another one right next to the main Transformer.

That's how you can distinguish an LLC-Resonant Mode thingy from other topologys.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation. Didn't cross my mind to look for the (lack of) output toroid.

Yes, LLC-resonant explains a lot how this PSU can deliver so much power out of so few components. I think that's also the same (or very similar) topology used in LCD monitor CCFL inverters as well as those small halogen light switching PSUs.

Yeah and the interesting/great thing:
Its a Single Layer Board.

Thankfully!
PCBs with both big and small (SMD) components on both sides can be rather hard to troubleshoot when something goes wrong.

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

VIP ST-235ATX 250W ATX.
After 20 years of service it was time to retire this unit. It won't start anymore.

Nah, should repair it and make it last 20 more years.

I was really impressed to find a TOP210 in such an old noname unit.

Same here. Which is probably another reason why I would say it's worth repairing it. On that note, I would guess the most likely reason this PSU doesn't start is due to bad caps - either the "start up" cap for that TOP210, the 5VSB output caps, or some of the small caps around the secondary-side PWM controller.

This PSU has a classic oldschool half-bridge topology, so there's not much to go wrong with it. Should be a fairly straight-forward fix (if you have the time and desire for that, of course).

Was good enough for some pentium 2 office machine that runs nothing but word97 and solitare...

Yup. Even more than enough.

BTW, I like the unique and strange fan cutout. And it cools like it exhausts hot air into the case rather than out? I've seen a few old Pentium-II era PSUs like that, at least.

[RukyCon]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

A 5V 1A USB charger i got from DollarTree.

I noticed DollarTree started selling USB chargers recently (at least the one near me) and so i thought i should get one to take apart to see how good it is.(and no, i'm not talking about the car USB chargers, i'm talking about the USB chargers you plug into your wall outlet (the 120/220 type).)
Anyway, time to see how it works.

Topside....................
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1524907393
Looks ok.

Bottomside.............................
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1524907593
Also looks ok.

Primary side.........................................
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1524907622
The fuse is a standard fusible resistor.
The capacitors are 2 Chenxing 'VENT' 4.7uf 400v caps with a small PFC coil between them.
I think the controller chip is a CR521 but i can't find any info about it.

Secondary side............................................................................
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1524907622
The blue ceramic cap is a real Y-class capacitor.
The diode is a SS34 3A schottky diode.
The capacitor is a Chenxing 'LOWESR' 470uf 10v cap.
And that's pretty much it, i think it's decent. I was going to do a load test on it but ran out of time to do so, but i'll try to do it in about two weeks.