Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

[jarvis7]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

It is, a little bit.
Chances are, it's not, though. Typically the PSU quickly becomes unstable once the caps fail, so you will notice.


With cheap cap brands, it's all about luck. Sometimes you can get 10 years and sometimes even as little as 10 months. This stems from the fact that their quality control is too loose.

Of course, there are cap brands and series that are known to fail in certain ways, like for example Chemicon KZG failing when sitting unused on the shelf or Teapo SC failing in hot spots. So based on that, sometimes it is possible to predict a failure in certain devices (like for example, a crappy cap next to a hot spot in a PSU - typically the first 5VSB filter cap).

So I think the best route for you would be to use the PSU until the warranty expires, then open it and recap it. Also, while the PSU is still under warranty, it still wouldn't hurt if you take it out of the computer once a year or so and blow the dust out of it + give a visual inspection of the caps through the fan grille.

Thanks a lot sir.. great reply from you as always

regarding last part, so Capxons are better than teapos in that regard , as generally teapos fail without any external signs , no bulging etc so the user wouldn't know by looking at it ? because of this are teapos more prone to fail "slowly" as in not dying completely but allowing higher ripple vs Capxons dying instantly .. or is there no correlation between no external failure signs with caps dying slowly vs instantly

sorry for the delayed reply

Thanks

[jazzie366]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I was to have a quick look at this chinese wonder, R-Senda SD-1600EPS. As usually, there is no word about this model anywhere on their site or even on the Internet so who knows what the heck this is. Also no 80 PLUS certification papers available from Ecova so it is likely bogus, though it does provide slightly over 80 % peak efficiency (close to bronze actually). Close to maximum power it was barely 80 %. The maximum output is about 1300 W than it shuts down. I wonder what is actually the rated power, 1800 W, 1600 W, 1600 W peak or what?

Notice the complete lack of input filtering, there is not even place for it, with the exception of the three Y ceramics (only two of them actually populated). The ripple on two rails I was looking at (+5 V, +12 V) was high over 200 mV Uses ancient CM6802.

I almost contracted R-Senda for an OEM run of atx supplies. If there's no info on it, it's either 1. they stopped making it and it's just faded away, or 2. it's bogus. They are known in China to be reputable for their 80+ ratings which can be found and verified. Also keep in mind that when dealing with a foreign company, they will usually use whoever's cheapest to certify their products when they were being made. It's commonplace for them to rely on buyers to have the products properly certified. However, there are companies like UniFive and Delta that do this already. Otherwise they are already built to, "UL Standard".

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

or is there no correlation between no external failure signs with caps dying slowly vs instantly

There's no correlation.
I've seen caps bulge and still hold up their specs well enough for some time to keep the circuit operational.

Thus, no matter what happens, you won't know your caps are bad until they really get bad enough that the PSU stops working. So there's nothing you can do, other than keep using the PSU until something gives up... unless you change the caps with known good Japanese brands, of course - only then you can have peace of mind.

[jarvis7]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Thanks a lot sir

[pdavid]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

PC POWER Phantom RAIDERS MP1800X..

This is fully modular pure chineseum "mining" psu. A colegue decided to use one of these. "How bad can it be.. sitting in the basement 24/24 with four R9 295X2".
For a few weeks it worked. And then it stopped working.
There is standby, but unit doesn't turn on.

I did some autopsy. It turns out two of the 12V double diodes were shorted.

EMI filtering is ok.
16A glass-body fuse without any shielding right on the AC connector PCB.
Genuine CAP200DG discharge ic
2xGBU1006 bridge rectifier (Diodes Incorporated), no heatsink.

Primary:
Forward topology.
PFC switchers: 2x GP47S60X (Hong Guan).
2x PFCD86G knockoff diode.
Big coil.
Primary switcher: Single GP47S60X.
2x Asia'x LPX 330uF 420V primary capacitors.
Genuine CM6800G pwm/pfc controller.

Standby:
TNY277PN knockoff power ic.
EE-19 trafo.
SB360 diode.
Output Pi-filter: 2x Asia'x TMX 2200uF 10V capacitors, radial inductor.

ETD44 main transformer.

Secondary:
12V rail: 7x MBR6060CT (TOBA), big current regulator coil, 6x Asia'x TMX 2200uF 16V electrolitic capacitors.
5V rail: DC-DC; 4x SG40N01D, unknown controller ic, 3x uknown brand 470uF 16V polimer capacitor, Asia'x 1500uF TMX 10V electrolitic capacitor.
3.3V railC-DC; 4x SG40N01D, unknown controler ic, 3x uknown brand 470uF 16V polimer capacitor, Asia'x TMX 1500uF 10Velectrolitic capacitor.

-12V rail: extra winding on 5V regulator coil, SB240 diode, Asia'x TMX 1000uF 16V capacitor.

EST.7627 secondary supervisor.

Temperature controlled fan: LM311, some passives, smd NTC on pcb.
Some 14mm sleeve bearing fan.

Cables are ribbon type, 18awg thick, connectors from WYM manufacturer.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Looks like the date code is week 7 of 2017.

A 1600W power supply forward converter? I could be wrong, but that sounds quite high for that topology.

60 volt rectifiers for the 12V outputs? The sounds a bit risky. I wonder if they were chosen to boost the efficiency a bit.

A 3 amp rectifier for the 2.5 amp 5Vsb output? That seems a bit weak. A 4 or 5 amp device would be more robust.

I know it supposedly is "Gold" rated, but unless the fan is blowing very strongly right on those heatsinks, they seem a bit less beefy than they should be.

A 16 amp fuse, glass body and not sleeved? If it blows it will probably spray glass shards throughout the power supply.

I'm pretty sure Asia'x electrolytics are not a respected brand here on Bad Caps.

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

In reality that will be like 1300 W continuous.

Also there is no such platform on Ecovas website so the certification is most likely fake.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

In reality that will be like 1300 W continuous.

Also there is no such platform on Ecovas website so the certification is most likely fake.

The ceramic Y caps on that filter board look like they could be genuine.

[Quaddro]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

For an unknown manufacturer, it's actually quite decent...
Unfortunately, that "porn star" caps ruin it...

But 12v rail diodes shorted?
For that much capacity available which is almost 300a for 12v rail, why is it failed?
Is it blow or not..?

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

A 1600W power supply forward converter? I could be wrong, but that sounds quite high for that topology.

Nah, you are absolutely right - it is too high for a STF.

Most likely there are two GP47S60X MOSFETs for the main PS (likely double-forward design), and the single GP47S60X is for the PFC.

For an unknown manufacturer, it's actually quite decent...

I agree.
This is definitely not a 1800W PSU... but it looks alright for 600-800 Watts, at the very least.

That glass fuse, though.... :\

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

PC POWER Phantom RAIDERS MP1800X..

This is fully modular pure chineseum "mining" psu. A colegue decided to use one of these. "How bad can it be.. sitting in the basement 24/24 with four R9 295X2".
For a few weeks it worked. And then it stopped working.
There is standby, but unit doesn't turn on.

Primary:
2x Asia'x LPX 330uF 420V primary capacitors.
Genuine CM6800G pwm/pfc controller.

To be honest, that unit looks quite OKish.
Capacitor choice seems somewhat OKish, but cheaply...
Soldering is also quite good for the most part but the handsoldered part looks a bit sloppy...
Capacitance on +12V seems more than reasonable too.

BUT: Never ever it is a 1600 or 1800W PSU. Its more in the ballpark of 700-800W. I'd go by the primary capacitance. The two 330uF/420WV caps ->660uF combined support my suspision.

But why the hell would you use it with FOUR 500W Graphics card that cost at least 500 bucks or so on eBay?
Makes no sense to save that much on the PSU.

But on the other hand a decent quality 1500W PSU or so cost about the same as one Graphics card.

Either way that looks nothing like a real 1500W would. Give it half in decent performance, 1000W in really shittty, if at all...
In the End it would have been a somewhat decent PSU if labeled correctly.

@Pete:
There are/were some 1200W+ units with Double Forward on the market. Though some of them rather seem like two 750W in one Case.

Here two examples:
Silverstone 1350W Zeus:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...tory5&reid=325

Silverstone 1500W:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...tory4&reid=175


In the olden days there also were some crap like 1000/1200W group regulated units. Of course they were made by FSP...

[pdavid]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I couldn't find any info on the manufacturer. There are model numbers and revision on the PCBs. I found half dozen other units like this on Ebay and they all seem to be different platforms.

In hindsight I added some 200nF capacitors and 100Ohm resistors for snubbig those 12V rectifiers. The ones that failed measured 2.5V forward voltage from cathode to anode and 0.0640V to the other direction or something like that.
The guy is using this same psu with the same rig... in a damp basement.

[kevin!]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Recently I found this PSU of 2.5A, of 12v, of the li shin international brand, and I was surprised when it was dismantled, panny capacitors, good EMI insulating, good PCF filtering. and what I like the most, it has a very good construction, high enough separated high voltage solders, it has a protection varistor, and a very big fuse, and good separation and good insulation of low voltage at high voltage.
What I do not like too much, the PFC coil is very close to the heatsink.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Recently I found this PSU of 2.5A, of 12v, of the li shin international brand, and I was surprised when it was dismantled, panny capacitors, good EMI insulating, good PCF filtering. and what I like the most, it has a very good construction, high enough separated high voltage solders, it has a protection varistor, and a very big fuse, and good separation and good insulation of low voltage at high voltage.
What I do not like too much, the PFC coil is very close to the heatsink.

k!, that looks like a flyback topology power supply, possibly self-oscillating. The inductor with a green painted core looks more like an input common mode inductor. I don't think that has PFC. The curie temperature for ferrites (the temperature at which they lose their magnetic properties) is typically around 200C, so the only concern about being close to the heatsink would be whether there's a large voltage difference between the inductor winding and the heatsink.

All that said, flyback designs do stress output capacitors, and it looks like the manufacturer went with good parts.

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I think the SSOP-8 IC is the driver. It is not that uncommon for cheap but still regulated units to use self-oscillating circuit though.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Something new, 80plus Gold (230VAC) certified, possibly the cheapest one there is:



Not bad for the price that is under a Corsair CX750M - almost 10€...
And the fan controller is better, fan rpm at idle way lower.
I've measured something around 400rpm or something like that. And ~1400rpm at ~700W Load.

The cables are really nice and not the usual Viagra Stuff you see on other manufacturers...

The only thing I really hate is that bloody 8pin Protection IC...

[Dan81]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Something new, 80plus Gold (230VAC) certified, possibly the cheapest one there is:



Not bad for the price that is under a Corsair CX750M - almost 10€...
And the fan controller is better, fan rpm at idle way lower.
I've measured something around 400rpm or something like that. And ~1400rpm at ~700W Load.

The cables are really nice and not the usual Viagra Stuff you see on other manufacturers...

The only thing I really hate is that bloody 8pin Protection IC...

Xilence? Their PSUs seem pretty good. I think they build their own PSUs rather than using an OEM, but I might be wrong.

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

They use (pretty much) no-name chinese OEMs, but still, for the price it's reasonably decent. Guess this is the newest X series, like a, gaming or something (what does that mean anyway?).

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Xilence? Their PSUs seem pretty good. I think they build their own PSUs rather than using an OEM, but I might be wrong.

Yes, Xilence
And AFAIK they use XHY, until recently known for pretty shitty units.
But since Xilence, they show what they are able to.

The Performance A+ and X are really good.

They use (pretty much) no-name chinese OEMs, but still, for the price it's reasonably decent. Guess this is the newest X series, like a, gaming or something (what does that mean anyway?).

Yes, newest X-Series.

And what's really "interesting" is that the fan controller of this unit from a tiny chinese manufacturer is way better than many many "named brand" ones...

Was really pleasantly suprised about this unit - sadly not something that happens often these days, even with "Named Brands"...

€dit:
And the primary cap seems pretty neet too.
Though 470uF is on the small side for a 750W unit, so no holdup time of 17ms for this unit

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Jeantech JNP-500AP (PCB No:380 REV:B5 2005-07-12)

The other thing I have noticed is that Sirtech PSUs have somewhat poor voltage regulation, especially on boot-up. When powering on the PC, I hear an awful lot of squealing for 1-2 seconds before the PSU settles. The output voltages seem to wobble a bit during that time as well. And worst part is, I know it’s not the caps, as I have another PSU built by Sirtech that I recapped, and it acts in a similar way (and even worse, when I filled in an “empty” cap spot).

So what are your thoughts on this Sirtec High Power PSU?

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23996

They are not suitable for 12V powered machines

EDIT: Check this pdf
https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...a1ac9621a8.pdf

There are some pictures at the last pages.