Elna caps for power supplies?

[bobbyrae]

I looked through the FAQS here and noticed that Elna is simply not mentioned, but then the FAQ dates back to 2006. I found some stuff on eBay - low ESR Elna's, and was wondering if they are worth considering.

I need a 3300uF, 16v that is 10mm. VERY hard to find. The Elna's are one of the few that fits the bill. I think I could squeeze in a 12.5mm if I have to.

Of course, some of these sellers will say "motherboard capacitor" without stating the actual series, so it's good to know what is recommended. Probably RJX, where X is any letter and not a number.

Thoughts?

[shovenose]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

elna sucks

[tom66]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

Elna low ESR capacitors are fine, but they're not as good as the others, the big four.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

ELNA is well known, and become very popular in 90s.

Today what counts is the quality of the listed spesifications by its manufactorer.
My sugestion is to look for equiveland product from another manufactorer which has far more experiance with low ESR cap's.

[bobbyrae]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

Elna low ESR capacitors are fine, but they're not as good as the others, the big four.

Big four meaning...

Nichicon
United Chemicon
Rubycon
Panasonic

Right?

[japlytic]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

In the late-60s to the early to mid-70s, Elna electrolytic capacitors were quite popular in Australia, as far as I know.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

Elna was a player in low ESR caps in the late 70s and early 80s, but in those days NCC/UCC and Nichicon were the big boys.

[ben7]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

Elna capacitors are OK, their low esr types are not the best in that area though.

I would stick with the well known ones.

[LLLlllou]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

I looked through the FAQS here and noticed that Elna is simply not mentioned, but then the FAQ dates back to 2006. I found some stuff on eBay - low ESR Elna's, and was wondering if they are worth considering.

I need a 3300uF, 16v that is 10mm. VERY hard to find. The Elna's are one of the few that fits the bill. I think I could squeeze in a 12.5mm if I have to.

Of course, some of these sellers will say "motherboard capacitor" without stating the actual series, so it's good to know what is recommended. Probably RJX, where X is any letter and not a number.

Thoughts?

There's better than 90% chance that anything you get on ebay wil be counterfeit or completely different than what's listed. The only two trused selers on ebay are audjade_chn and PCMCS (egekecu).

The reason you don't see any good 10mm 3300uf 16v caps, is because there are none. Good manufacturors don't make them cause you can't stuff that much capacitance into that small a case and still have acceptable quality. The crap manufacturor have no problem stuffing crap into that small a case and pretending it isn't shit.


Your two options are squeeze in a 12.5mm cap, or go down to 2200uf.
I usually use 12.5mm UCC KZH or KZM. A little low in ESR for a power supply, but I've never had any issues, and they should last a couple decades.

Elna is a manufacturor of quality caps, but mostly for the audio field. They do offer some low ESR series, but they're so rare (and impossible to buy from a known good source) that no one has accumulated any reliabillity info.

[bobbyrae]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

The reason you don't see any good 10mm 3300uf 16v caps, is because there are none. Good manufacturors don't make them cause you can't stuff that much capacitance into that small a case and still have acceptable quality. The crap manufacturor have no problem stuffing crap into that small a case and pretending it isn't shit.

Thanks for explaining that. It did seem a bit weird. I have a dead Antec 480 that lasted about 8 years and it has those same 10mm caps in it. Interestingly, they still seem to be OK. The big filter caps are what went bad there. Can't they just make the caps LONGER to keep them thin? There is so much effort towards miniaturizing today that it seems like 'thin' would have to be a market they were pursuing.

Your two options are squeeze in a 12.5mm cap, or go down to 2200uf.
I usually use 12.5mm UCC KZH or KZM. A little low in ESR for a power supply, but I've never had any issues, and they should last a couple decades.

So if you are looking at output caps, would 2200uF suffice in most cases? I think that the Antec used 2 Fuhjyyu 2200uF 16V caps in parallel.

Thanks again!

[ben7]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

The big filter caps are what went bad there. Can't they just make the caps LONGER to keep them thin?

As far as I know, the issue with long capacitors is high inductance, I believe. I am not sure though.

What brand were the primary side filter caps,that went bad?

[Behemot]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

There's better than 90% chance that anything you get on ebay wil be counterfeit or completely different than what's listed. The only two trused selers on ebay are audjade_chn and PCMCS (egekecu).

The reason you don't see any good 10mm 3300uf 16v caps, is because there are none. Good manufacturors don't make them cause you can't stuff that much capacitance into that small a case and still have acceptable quality. The crap manufacturor have no problem stuffing crap into that small a case and pretending it isn't shit.


Your two options are squeeze in a 12.5mm cap, or go down to 2200uf.
I usually use 12.5mm UCC KZH or KZM. A little low in ESR for a power supply, but I've never had any issues, and they should last a couple decades.

Elna is a manufacturor of quality caps, but mostly for the audio field. They do offer some low ESR series, but they're so rare (and impossible to buy from a known good source) that no one has accumulated any reliabillity info.

I haven't read so much bullshit in a long time, sorry man.

Samxon RS is very well proven now over the years. I actually have them here in my hands, manufatured late april 2013. Wanna some? That's the [blahblah]no 10mm 16V 3300uF low-ESR caps[/blahblah]. I also more or less have NCC KYA and Samxon GT in D10 16 V 3300uF standing by to be manufactured. So what are you going to tell me now big boy, that Man Yue is crap brand? Than Nippon Chemi-Con is crap brand?

As for the rest, I bought caps several times from different people on eBay. Every time I obtained genuine Panasonic and Rubycon capacitors. Anything else you got there?

[LLLlllou]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

I haven't read so much bullshit in a long time, sorry man.

Samxon RS is very well proven now over the years. I actually have them here in my hands, manufatured late april 2013. Wanna some? That's the [blahblah]no 10mm 16V 3300uF low-ESR caps[/blahblah]. I also more or less have NCC KYA and Samxon GT in D10 16 V 3300uF standing by to be manufactured. So what are you going to tell me now big boy, that Man Yue is crap brand?

Actually, yes. Better crap than most, but still crap. I'd prefer them to say ltec or Teapo, but I still wouldn't trust them.

Than Nippon Chemi-Con is crap brand?

Of course not, but you're talking about custom made caps, NCC does not make 3300uf 16v caps normally for a reason. I'll bet the custom made D10 NCCs have a lower endurance rating than normal KYA. I'd still prefer them any day over a Teapo of the same dimention.

As for the rest, I bought caps several times from different people on eBay. Every time I obtained genuine Panasonic and Rubycon capacitors. Anything else you got there?

I've purchased hundreds, possibly thousands of Panny and UCC caps on eBay that are genuine, I've also spent much time and effort weeding out the bullshit to find the genuine. I know what to look for, the average person has no idea. Even with knowing what the real thing looks like, I've still gotten fake Nichicon HZ, Nichicon HD, and Panny. The average person randomly ordering caps on ebay is infinitely more likely to get counterfeit than real.

[LLLlllou]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

Thanks for explaining that. It did seem a bit weird. I have a dead Antec 480 that lasted about 8 years and it has those same 10mm caps in it. Interestingly, they still seem to be OK.

The diameter i just one part of the equation. The most important parts are the ripple current and the quality of the materials that make up the capacitor. If the capacitor is underated for the ammount of ripple it' going to see, the best cap in the world will still fail quickly. Same goes for caps with bad electrolyte, impure aluminum, or bad bungs. If you put in a decent LTec or Teapo, and don't feed it more ripple than it can handle, it will last quite a while.

The big filter caps are what went bad there. Can't they just make the caps LONGER to keep them thin? There is so much effort towards miniaturizing today that it seems like 'thin' would have to be a market they were pursuing.

Theoretically yes, but on allot of the series I've seen from a good manufacturors that make the same cap in two sizes, the narrower (<10mm) one almost always has a lower endurance rating than the wider (>12.5mm) one.

So if you are looking at output caps, would 2200uF suffice in most cases?

Probably, but if at all possible you should try to replace a 3300uf with a 3300uf or at least a 2700uf. With that said, some 3300uf 16v caps from crap manufacterers will actually be much closer to 2200uf when measured.

I think that the Antec used 2 Fuhjyyu 2200uF 16V caps in parallel.

You sure they're in parallel? Ususally there will be an inductor between them to form a pi filter. The impedance if the caps (and to a lesser degree the capacitance) will work with the inductor to form a filter tuned to the ripple frequency to block it. Changing anything too much can throw it out of wack and your ripple can get worse. The capacitance also effects the hold up time (how long it takes for the output voltage to drop during a voltage sag on the line.)

[Behemot]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

Actually, yes. Better crap than most, but still crap. I'd prefer them to say ltec or Teapo, but I still wouldn't trust them.

I'd rather say somebody is full of crap here, and it's not me though…all the ppl here using RS have pobably hundres of thousands hours of runtime (at minimum) alltogether without any single fail. If you are not seeing it, than you are just troll.

I have final proof of their quality waiting in here, in my own power supply which has been recapped three years ago from which last two years has been running at 80-100 % of it's capacity. And last year it has been running at this capacity more than 16 hours a day on average. So it has been on for at least 12000 hours alltogether. And it is not running cold, output temperature is 40 °C.

Just waiting for brand new Huntkey FX500SE sample which I will swap with my Liberty and than I'll have the possibility of taking out the caps and measuring them…

I've purchased hundreds, possibly thousands of Panny and UCC caps on eBay that are genuine, I've also spent much time and effort weeding out the bullshit to find the genuine. I know what to look for, the average person has no idea. Even with knowing what the real thing looks like, I've still gotten fake Nichicon HZ, Nichicon HD, and Panny. The average person randomly ordering caps on ebay is infinitely more likely to get counterfeit than real.

That's the problem of those people. But obviously you are just talking out from you statement that there are only two trustworthy sellers which is nothing but desperate lie.

[LLLlllou]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

That's the problem of those people. But obviously you are just talking out from you statement that there are only two trustworthy sellers which is nothing but desperate lie.

OK, you've convinced me. From now on everyone should just order caps from eBay.

[Behemot]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

From now on everybody can do everything he wants, as before. You are here the one trying to push everybody out from there…

It's their responsibility, if they are not capable of recognizing original caps or having their money returned if they recieve fakes (which is now very easy on PayPal, quite often against the seller rights), that it only belongs to them. They can always buy from trustworthy sources, there are hundres of them all over the world.

[bobbyrae]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

>>I think that the Antec used 2 Fuhjyyu 2200uF 16V caps in parallel.

You sure they're in parallel? Ususally there will be an inductor between them to form a pi filter. The impedance if the caps (and to a lesser degree the capacitance) will work with the inductor to form a filter tuned to the ripple frequency to block it. Changing anything too much can throw it out of wack and your ripple can get worse. The capacitance also effects the hold up time (how long it takes for the output voltage to drop during a voltage sag on the line.)

No, I am not sure at all! It's pretty hard to get the schematic from just looking at traces. It does appear that there is an inductor right there. My point was that where the first PS had just a single 3300uF 16V, the Antec had two 2200uF 16v right next to each other, suggesting that they probably had 4400uF on the 12v output. Exactly how, I can't be sure, and like you say messing with this stuff can result in worse performance. I had thought *maybe* I could put the two 2200uF caps in the other one, but it's a lot of work to get a BS install. Easier to just get anther 3300uF per design.

[Pentium4]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

It probably has dual 12V rails. One 2200uF 16V cap for each rail and maybe even an inductor for each rail too.

[bobbyrae]

Re: Elna caps for power supplies?

What brand were the primary side filter caps,that went bad?

The Antec TruePower480 had Rubycon 1000uF 200V filter caps. see pics.

Any idea why one of these would just blow a hole in itself? It was kinda dramatic. Resulted in burning a hole in a nearby power transistor!