A lesson in power and efficiency.

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  • Th3_uN1Qu3
    Believe in
    • Jul 2010
    • 6031
    • Romania

    #1

    A lesson in power and efficiency.

    We all know that cheap PSUs blow up at anywhere between 175 and 350W. Most are only safe to use long-term at sub 150W. Most of the time it's the primary transistors that blow.

    When you ask someone uneducated in PSU design as to why they blew, he'll probably answer "crap transistors". Someone slightly more educated would answer "crap heatsinks". But this is only half the truth. Of course, low efficiency and small heatsinks don't mix, but what if we could make the efficiency higher?

    There's an easy way to do that and that's upgrade those god-awful secondary diodes. If you've bothered to recap a low quality PSU then at least don't make it a waste of caps. Use diodes with at least twice the current rating of the rail, and the lowest voltage drop you can find. Most cheapies are silkscreened for both TO-220 and TO-247 (or those horrible round-diodes-on-a-bracket things) so there are plenty of choices. Watch for reverse voltage too, general rule is 40-45v for 5v and 3.3v rails, 100v for 12v. This will dramatically increase the efficiency and thus the power output that you get from that supply.

    Next in line are small and thin-wired inductors and transformers, but you're better off buying a new, good quality PSU than going to this extent to get more out of a cheap one, unless you're planning to do it for a different application than powering a PC.

    FYI: At 85% efficiency a pair of TO-247 13009s will do over 600W output. I got to 650W with room to spare, but my transformer and inductor are only good for 600W long-term so i had to stop there. The TO-220 variety will do 400-some watts. So in a sense the power ratings of cheap PSUs aren't a complete lie, the primary can do it. But only if the rest of the supply had the right diodes, inductors, transformer and heatsinks...
    Originally posted by PeteS in CA
    Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
    A working TV? How boring!
  • ss627
    Super Member
    • Mar 2008
    • 52

    #2
    Re: A lesson in power and efficiency.

    Is it okay to change out the secondary diodes without messing with the pi filters?

    Comment

    • Th3_uN1Qu3
      Believe in
      • Jul 2010
      • 6031
      • Romania

      #3
      Re: A lesson in power and efficiency.

      Yes. The diodes merely convert the high frequency pulsed AC waveform passed by the transformer to pulsed DC which is then smoothed by the filters. They have nothing to do with the output filters or the compensation network.
      Originally posted by PeteS in CA
      Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
      A working TV? How boring!

      Comment

      • b700029
        Banned
        • Sep 2010
        • 640

        #4
        Re: A lesson in power and efficiency.

        At 85% efficiency a pair of TO-247 13009s will do over 600W output.
        Is this the reason why even ultra-high-end PSUs (1kW+) don't move to more substantial packages like TO-3?

        Comment

        • Th3_uN1Qu3
          Believe in
          • Jul 2010
          • 6031
          • Romania

          #5
          Re: A lesson in power and efficiency.

          Yes. And btw, the 13009 is an old bipolar transistor - everyone has moved to MOSFETs, which can offer even higher efficiency. Besides, TO-3 is bulky and needs a specially designed heatsink, which equals to higher cost. TO-247 is enough for all PC PSU applications.
          Originally posted by PeteS in CA
          Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
          A working TV? How boring!

          Comment

          • ThePCDoctor
            Retired Tech.
            • Sep 2011
            • 59
            • United States

            #6
            Re: A lesson in power and efficiency.

            Years ago, I worked on a small computerized system that used 1A diodes in their 21v regulated power supply. Those diodes were under-rated, so during heavy load conditions they would get hot and fail. If the problem had just stopped there, the repair would have been a 5 minute job. But it didn't stop there. When those diodes shorted out, it blew out every one of 25 Solenoid and relay driver transistors in the system.

            It took several hours and lots of parts to fix the problem. My boss was absolutely LIVID at the cost in parts and my time.
            I solved the whole problem by going to our local Radio Shack store and buying a dozen 3A, 100v diodes. I then rebuilt the power supplies in every one of those machines under my care, and we never had 'Blow-Outs' again.
            That simple repair became a "Critical Notice" in the companies monthly Technical News Letter.

            Bottom Line: When ever I have to replace a blown component, I always try to go UP on the amps and volts, to prevent further failures.
            Just a thought.

            The Doctor
            Experience is truly the best teacher.
            Backup! Backup! Backup! Ghost Rocks!

            Comment

            • Th3_uN1Qu3
              Believe in
              • Jul 2010
              • 6031
              • Romania

              #7
              Re: A lesson in power and efficiency.

              Originally posted by ThePCDoctor
              Years ago, I worked on a small computerized system that used 1A diodes in their 21v regulated power supply. Those diodes were under-rated, so during heavy load conditions they would get hot and fail. If the problem had just stopped there, the repair would have been a 5 minute job. But it didn't stop there. When those diodes shorted out, it blew out every one of 25 Solenoid and relay driver transistors in the system.
              To quote this guy, this isn't being cheap, it's being incompetent. Reminds me of this article too.

              Originally posted by ThePCDoctor
              Bottom Line: When ever I have to replace a blown component, I always try to go UP on the amps and volts, to prevent further failures.
              With SMPS supplies there also are other important parameters, such as voltage drop, reverse recovery time and so on. Doing a bit of research and reading datasheets is always advisable.
              Originally posted by PeteS in CA
              Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
              A working TV? How boring!

              Comment

              • Behemot
                Badcaps Legend
                • Dec 2009
                • 4845
                • CZ

                #8
                Re: A lesson in power and efficiency.

                I guess it is OK to use two crappier diodes in parallel since we know that their efficiency together with maximum current ratings goes up than.

                You know what, my package with crappy 10-20 A bridges is going bigger, I don't want to throw them out and buy better ones on the other hand. This all are money to save but still make the PSU better :-D

                Anyway what power do you think I can squeeze out of main transformer with 29x35 mm core?
                Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

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