Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

[eccerr0r]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

If you get it otherwise working, the improvement is to add another resistor or put a fuse between the charger input and battery+ instead of that jumper of solder...

[withalligators]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

Man, I really slept on this thread cause I'm so busy with some other stuff. The guy who's scooter it is asked me about it. Any ideas what to repair/replace or improve to make it more failsafe? Thanks!

[withalligators]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

CN1 is not connected as it should be .look at the pic .the right side is broken copper

It's hard to see, but there is a delineation on the top of the board that goes around the plastic of CN1. It does seem that one side of CN1 connects only to the hot side of PJ, the battery, and 87A/30 on the relay. The other side connects to R3 and 86 on the relay.

[withalligators]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

It is confusing, you are referring the Gray 15 Ohms resistor as CN1.
CN1 is the designator for that white 2-pin connector.
RT1 is the designator for the fuse and is outlined as white box.
The 15 Ohm grey resistor should have designator as R3.
We need the reading in Ohms when measure between relay pin 85, pin 86, etc.
For examples:
What is the resistance (Ohms) between Q 1 'A' pin and relay pin 85?
What is the resistance (Ohms) between Q 1 'A' pin and relay pin 86?
What is the resistance Resistor R3 pin 1 and relay pin 85?
What is the resistance Resistor R3 pin 1 and relay pin 86?
Also you have indicated that CN1 connector goes to the charger, is that true?
Because based on Redwire post #23, it is not.
I thinks we need to really see how the board is really connected to other parts/boards.
Redwire schematic may be how the board is connected: https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...6&d=1573942542
But I still cannot see how the SCR is turned on, may be from back EMF of the motor when switch to CN 1 is close and the wheel is turned manually at the same time?

Yes, you are correct on the initial mislabeling of the components on my end. I'm super rusty! Sorry.

Q1A -> 85 : 80.4ohms
Q1A -> 86 : starts at ~0.5, ticks down to 0.1
R3 -> 85 : starts at 1.0, ticks down to 0.0
R3 -> 86: 80.3ohms
85 -> 86: 80.3ohms
Q1A -> R3: 80.4ohms

CN1 does not go to the charger, it goes up to the front of the bike. I don't have it here, but like redwire and STJ say, it seems to be some kind of safety switch.

M spades go to the motor, PJ goes to the battery, and the other set of spades goes to the charger. CN1 goes to the front of the bike.

[redwire]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

OK, the e-scooter (relay) will not activate unless there is movement (generator action from the motor which turns on the SCR) and the throttle switch is closed.
When you let off on the throttle switch, the relay turns off instantly but the SCR only stays off after the scooter stops.

e-scooters are popular now and the bar crowd rent them and drive a bit crazy late at night. I worry about getting drunk and crashing one, I haven't tried them yet, no idea what the safety interlocks are. Lyft website has no info on the controls.

[petehall347]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

CN1 is not connected as it should be .look at the pic .the right side is broken copper

[budm]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

It is confusing, you are referring the Gray 15 Ohms resistor as CN1.
CN1 is the designator for that white 2-pin connector.
RT1 is the designator for the fuse and is outlined as white box.
The 15 Ohm grey resistor should have designator as R3.
We need the reading in Ohms when measure between relay pin 85, pin 86, etc.
For examples:
What is the resistance (Ohms) between Q 1 'A' pin and relay pin 85?
What is the resistance (Ohms) between Q 1 'A' pin and relay pin 86?
What is the resistance Resistor R3 pin 1 and relay pin 85?
What is the resistance Resistor R3 pin 1 and relay pin 86?
Also you have indicated that CN1 connector goes to the charger, is that true?
Because based on Redwire post #23, it is not.
I thinks we need to really see how the board is really connected to other parts/boards.
Redwire schematic may be how the board is connected: https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...6&d=1573942542
But I still cannot see how the SCR is turned on, may be from back EMF of the motor when switch to CN 1 is close and the wheel is turned manually at the same time?

[stj]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

got it,
it's a circuit to stop you doing standing starts.
iff you push the scooter the motor generates voltage that passes through the resistors and enables the throttle.

it's either to protect a weak motor or for legal reasons in markets where "assist" is legal but full-electric isnt.

it would be temping to replace it all with a high-current variable PWM drive.

[redwire]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

It looks the 2-pin connector CN1 is just a safety interlock, if it's open circuit pin 1-2 then the relay coil can get no power and the relay is off.
If power was off then pin 1-2 shorted together by a switch, still doesn't explain how the SCR gets power in the first place at M+, to turn on and latch.
The throttle, I'm not sure where it connects to anything. It needs battery power and an output to the motor.

If you have a bench power supply and a couple car light bulbs, you can try test the board, see if it works.

[withalligators]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

Ok, the white 2 pin connector is indeed throttle. Sorry about that, I misunderstood from the guy. The charger does connect to the second set of 2 spade pins. So, the throttle is connected on the - side to CN1 which then goes to 86.

I'm assuming since the hot side of the throttle is connected to PJ+ that when you engage the throttle it powers the coil to engage the relay?

[withalligators]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

Let me see if the guy can bring the bike thing in tomorrow. I thought the charger port was the white 2 pin thing, but maybe that's the throttle or something and the charger is connected to a set of the spades.

Either way, CN1 has no continuity with PJ+ or -, it's on the - side of the white 2 pin connector. Or at least, I'm assuming it's the - side as the other pin is on the same circuit as PJ+

[redwire]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

Hmmm... the 15 ohm 3W resistor connects to CN1 pin 1, and other end to the relay coil 86, OK that's fine.
CN1 pin 2 goes to PJ-? I thought it goes to PJ+.

We're still not working because the relay coil needs a source of power from somewhere.

[withalligators]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

Q1 goes to 85.

CN1 goes to the negative side of the charger port on one end and to 86 on the other end, and I get no continuity with it and any of the resistors.

[redwire]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

[...] good connectivity between the anode of Q1 and 85 on the relay, and good connectivity between CN1 and 86 on the relay.
... 85 and 86 have good connectivity, and the anode of Q1 and CN1 have good connectivity, but the numbers are really low between the anode and 86 and CN1 and 85.
...
Q1 to 85 I get ~80ohms. Q1 to 86 I get descending numbers until it settles at 0.1/0.0.
For CN1 to 86 I get ~80ohms. CN1 to 85 I get the same descending numbers.
For 85 to 86 I get ~80, and for Q1 to CN1 I also get ~80.

I'm confused... So Q1 anode goes to 85 or 86? CN1 has two pins and one goes to the 15 ohm resistor, and the other to B+ I think.

Overall, It's still not quite making sense, the SCR grounds one end of the relay coil but something at CN1 puts power on the other end of the coil; which is OK but the SCR needs (motor) power to latch on.
So I'm not sure how this relay board works still.

It looks like a pulse from a pushbutton switch at CN1 will pull in the relay and then the SCR latches and keeps the relay on.
I don't know what can shut off the relay - this is puzzling.

The Songle relay SLD-12VDC-1C has a coil resistance of 90 ohms and 133mA nominal which is what your ohmeter is showing.

[withalligators]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

Q1 to 85 I get ~80ohms. Q1 to 86 I get descending numbers until it settles at 0.1/0.0.

For CN1 to 86 I get ~80ohms. CN1 to 85 I get the same descending numbers.

For 85 to 86 I get ~80, and for Q1 to CN1 I also get ~80.

[stj]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

numbers are really low? explain.

[withalligators]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

Ok, there's good connectivity between the anode of Q1 and 85 on the relay, and good connectivity between CN1 and 86 on the relay.

What's interesting is that 85 and 86 have good connectivity, and the anode of Q1 and CN1 have good connectivity, but the numbers are really low between the anode and 86 and CN1 and 85.

But, I'm an idiot, so there's a solid chance that's not interesting at all.

[redwire]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

I don't what the throttle looks like. I assume it's downstream of this relay board?
I would say the board acts as a master power switch, the SCR latches on once the motor receives any power.

All the melted traces seem to be between the battery and the charger, so I think the charger shorted somewhere.

[withalligators]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

Ah, right. I see the traces now. Also, the throttle must connect to those second set of male spades, right?

[redwire]

Re: Battery charging / power supply switch board for a Red Rhino electric scooter

The relay must have connections to the coil, this pic shows they are there but run on the top of the pc board, if you look carefully.
I don't see a capacitor on the board. There is a 15 ohm grey body resistor going to CN1 the two-pin plug. It does not connect to the charger like you think, it has to be the enable or on/off switch for this entire board.