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**370forlife** · 05-28-2009, 06:10 PM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

Just trash that psu. Even a recapped deer is not safe.

**lucky13** · 05-29-2009, 11:38 PM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

Gianni,

I suppose if you are eager to know if the board is dead or alive, then go ahead and recap with what you have. After all, they will still be better than what's there.

Then if the board comes back to life, then recap again with the proper caps. I know this is more work but the suspense could be killing you....

And ditch the p/s as 370 said.

**ratdude747** · 05-30-2009, 02:12 AM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

vote 3 to sentence the deer to exile

**370forlife** · 05-30-2009, 09:19 AM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

Put some antlers on it and throw it out in the woods, back to it's natural habitat.

Well...until someone shoots it.

**momaka** · 05-30-2009, 10:33 PM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

The Deer PSU may be ok for a low-powered PII/PIII (though, even that depends on how well the Deer is built), but it certainly shouldn't be ran in a Pentium 4 machine as P4s pull power from 12v. Problem is, Deer/L&C/Allied are built to output more voltage on 5v rail, hence they often have weak filtering on the 12v, which may kill even the new caps on the motherboard.
If you must use that Deer PSU, at least make sure it has all the output PI filters (especially the 12v one), if not add them if you have any spare ones from other PSUs that you might have. Also, make sure to add caps on output in spots that might be missing any. Change the one 50v, 47uF / 25v, 47uF cap if it's from a bad brand since that's a critical cap to the PSU. Add X/Y caps and input coils if PSU is lacking them and you have some spare ones.
... Though I still strongly recommend to get a different PSU, like everyone else here said. That 2.8GHz Northwood probably eats more power than that Deer should handle.

As for the motherboard, I don't really know if FM is a proper replacement for those GSCs (they are ME series, aren't they?). Nonetheless if it's working with those blown GSCs, chances are it will work with the FMs as well. The FKs might also work, but I'm not too sure. Hopefully someone with more experience than me can aswer that.

**Gianni** · 05-31-2009, 01:23 PM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

Hi all

the DEER PSU even if is not the best, it is complete: it has 2 input filter and all PI filters. It has also passive PFC, ok it is not very important but it is better than nothing.
You can see some pics here.
I agree with all of you it should be trashed but... it has been inside this PC for at least 4 year and there are not signs of problem. The VRM caps are blown because are crap, in the MOBO I saw last year the PSU was a Seasonic, good PSU, but the caps were all ruined just like this one; so I think all depends on this GSC crap caps.
Anyway I have replaced most caps and I need some to complete it, in the picture you can see the top of caps have the Panasonic vent.

Anyway my doubts were about the MOBO and not PSU; the GSC caps LE have better ESR then FK, but I can't find suitable caps with same value and ESR and above all same diameter.
I would try to use 2200uF 6.3 FM, they are very close to GSC spec (ESR/current), but the total capacitance will be -30% respect to GSC. Usually on Badcaps the suggestion is to increase capacity or at lest to keep the same value, not to decrease it.

Respect to my first post here, I'm going to replace 4 GSC 1500uF16V LE and not 6.3V with 1200uF 16V FM, once again the problem is 10mm diameter. In this case total capacity will be -20% respect GSC.

These are my doubts, about PSU I have read a lot on Badcaps and I know Allied, Deer etc... are bad, I think the main problem is to recap the MOBO and only when I see it running correctly I can suggest to my neighbour to replace it.

For testing after recap, I will use a spare Newton Power 410W I bought, so if something goes wrong the DEER will be excluded.

Thanks for your effort, further comment on MOBO caps are welcome.

Gianni

Attached Files

**momaka** · 05-31-2009, 09:53 PM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

In the second picture of the Deer PSU, there's an empty spot for an extra capacitor on the output. See which rail it is on and add it in (especially if it's on the 12v rail). Otherwise that Deer doesn't look too bad at all. Definetly one of their better units.

About the motherboard - I doubt that Nichicon HE will work. Maybe use a combination of Panasonic FK/FM instead (FK to boost uF and FM to handle ripple). This is only an idea though, and I'm not sure if it will work (maybe it will if the FMs have much better ESR than the GSCs).
You can slightly drop uF value if and only if ESR on the new caps are lower than the old ones. Such case can be seen when polymers are used in place of electrolytic caps.
----
We could definitely use some experts in this thread

.

**Gianni** · 06-01-2009, 01:33 AM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

Hi nomaka

about DEER you are right, the empty spot is there because I have to buy some caps, actually I wrote in the previous post "Anyway I have replaced most caps and I need some to complete it....".

About your suggestion I really don't know if it is a good solution: if you have 7 caps in parallel and 3 o 4 have lower ESR, those caps will work more than the others because the current is higher (I=V/R).
OTOH it will help to find a compromise about ESR and total capacity.

Here are the specs of the caps:

GSC LE 3300uF 6.3V 2250 mA 17mOhm 10 X 25 mm
Pana FK 3300uF 6.3V 2140 mA 25mOhm 10 X 30 mm
Pana FM 2200uF 6.3V 2470mA 18mOhm 10 X 25 mm

With FK the total capacity will be the same but ESR will be 50% higher and current a little bit lower; with FM the capacity will be 30% lower but ESR will be very close with higher current capability.
What I have seen till now is that ESR is the most important parameter to choose replacement so FM should do the job.

Thanks for your help
Gianni

**PCBONEZ** · 06-01-2009, 07:37 AM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

ESR is more important in the VRM than uF.

**Gianni** · 06-01-2009, 03:55 PM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

So PCBONEZ I have chosen the right replacement (FM 2200uF 6.3V)?

Tonight I have ordered Panasonic FM, they will be available on Thursday.
Within a week I should be able to re-assemble the PC and see if it works, I will let you know.

Ciao
Gianni

**PCBONEZ** · 06-02-2009, 06:46 PM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

Yes, of those options you gave the FM is best.

**Gianni** · 06-05-2009, 03:02 AM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

Thanks PCBONEZ.

Yesterday I removed the caps around CPU and today I have checked them with a LCR meter.
Here you can find the table with results, I have checked also one Panasonic FM 2200uF 6.3V.
The leaking caps (3300uF 6.3V) are completely out of spec; one gave strange results at 100KHz.
The others (1500/1000) had still decent values.
By the way, all Panasonic FM caps I received from RS come from Malaysia while Nichicon PS and Nippon Chemi-Con LXY come from Japan.

I will be back with some pics of the board during and after recap.

Ciao
Gianni

Attached Files

**Gianni** · 06-09-2009, 01:47 AM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

This time seems that everything is all right, this P4PB400 is running well.

I have recapped the board, rebuilt the PC and run memtest for 5 hours without problem.
I have reinstalled WinXP HE and some others SW and returned the PC to the owner.

Here some pics: the Panasonic caps I received from RS, all 31 caps I removed from the MOBO, the cap-less and recapped MOBO, the cleaned HS and CPU FAN.
I recapped the DEER PSU and it seems to work properly.

Thanks all of you for your help.
Gianni

Attached Files

**PCBONEZ** · 06-09-2009, 01:53 AM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

Nice work!

**Per Hansson** · 06-09-2009, 09:06 AM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

Your recap is looking very good, and I do agree that the Deer even looks a bit ok as far as Deer powersupplies go

**momaka** · 06-09-2009, 12:25 PM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

Nicely done! The Pannies sure look proud in there.

**lucky13** · 06-09-2009, 07:54 PM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

Gianni,

Thanks for sharing with us. Nice work.

**ratdude747** · 06-10-2009, 10:25 PM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

for a deer, the heatsinks look excellent. good one to recap. hope it all runs ok.

**Gianni** · 06-11-2009, 02:44 PM

Re: Sometimes They Come Back

Hi all
thanks for your compliments.

I'm happy to share my little knowledge and experience with Badcaps and I'm happy to have found it.
All of you are great, sharing your experience and giving good advices.
Ok sometimes we have no the same point of view or opinion but at the end we discuss with respect for each other and we try to help anybody.
One of the thing I really appreciate here is the possibility to discuss about almost everything, and even on non "bad-caps" subject we share our personal experience.

I hope the forum will last long.

Thanks to all members and thank Topcat very much .
Gianni

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