MSI 694D Pro V1.0 recap

[bushytails]

Got a msi 694d pro v1.0 off ebay reasonably cheaply, with bad caps... Normally I'd just warm up the vacuum desoldering station and get to work, but after poking around the forums, noticed a few mildly disturbing things about this board I figured I should check before I started.


The first one... C390 backwards?! On my board, this is one of the less-funky capacitors, and looks pretty close to normal, with a very slightly rounded top. The capacitor is installed with the negative stripe aligned with the solid semicircle, like all the other caps. Due to its being in relatively good condition, it seems pretty odd it could have been living at reverse polarity for very long... and I think it's just a filter cap for the pci slots, but 3.9V doesn't sound like 3.3 nor 5. On mine the negative side is towards pci3, and the positive side towards pci2 (the side the AGP slot, cpus, etc is on).

Has anyone else made observations of the voltage on this capacitor? Should I find an old cpu, disposable ram, etc to stick in it, and try to get it to turn on long enough to measure the voltage on it? It makes the going-to-fry-things siren when it's turned on and no POST (rarely inits the video card and mostly POSTs, but usually completely dead), don't really want to stick one of my nice cpus in it...


Second, neither of the cap kits mentioned on badcaps (the one posted in the msi section nor the one on the site) seem to match this board.

Caps on this board:
6 Tayeh 2700uf 6.3v. All ready to pop.
1 Tayeh 1500uf 6.3v. Looks OK. for now.
4 Teapo 1500uf 10v. All look OK, but for Teapo's, that doesn't seem to mean much.
8 Chhsi 1000uf 6.3v. About half are swollen.
3 Chhsi 470uf 16v. All look OK. They are C19 (between the pci slots and the corner of the southbridge), C486 (by the bios chip and the usb2 header), and C31/C526 (can't tell which is which) (directly behind the usb plugs).

The kit listed on the website contains 11 1000uf 10v caps, apparently with the idea of replacing the 16v caps with 10v ones? No mention of 470uf caps is made on the "x replaces y" list though. Are these just 16v caps being used on the 5v line, with half the capacitance of the other ones? Is it worth replacing 470uf caps, which don't seem to fail very often?

The kit posted to the forum instead gives 8 1000uf 6.3v caps, and 3 1000uf 6.3v "low profile" caps. Again, hoping MSI just put 16v caps on the 5v line...


After rummaging around in my cap bins, I plan to:
Replace the 6 2700uf 6.3v caps with 3300uf 6.3v Nichicon PL series caps.
Replace the 1 1500uf 6.3v cap with another 3300uf 6.3v Nichicon PL cap, on the assumption that doubling the rating can't be a bad thing.
Replace the 4 1500uf 10v caps with 2200uf 16v Nichicon PW caps.
Replace the 8 1000uf 6.3v caps with 1200uf 6.3v Panasonic FA caps.
Ignore the 3 470uf 16v caps.

(This particular selection based on my not having to go buy anything.


Do people think I should replace the 470uf caps? I don't have any good replacements handy, so rather not replace them unless they're likely to fail. I've never seen ones this small fail, but if other people have, then I probably should replace them now rather than have to pull whatever box I build with this apart later.


Thanks in advance,
--Randy
(who would have used the username "randyg", but for some reason it's "not allowed"?)

[Topcat]

I rarely replace 470uF caps. They are not known to fail, as they seem to be made from a different electrolyte. If you have replacements, I probably would replace them, but its not as urgent.

BTW, if you want your name changed, feel free to PM me. We get a lot of retard Russian spammers that for some reason used the name 'randy' a lot, so I disallowed the name. That way, they can no longer register under it.

[bushytails]

Very, very interesting.... pulled apart my other 694d box... C390 is installed "backwards", with the negative stripe opposite the negative semicircle on the board. Time to get out the meter and see which one is actually correct.

Bad news is, although when I checked about 3 months ago all the caps were fine, now 4 are leaking and the rest swollen... grr. Guess I have two recaps to do now.


--Randy

[willawake]

If that board looks to be an original rather than a recapping then it is unlikely for the board to pass quality control with a cap reversed. Anyway you have two boards with the same issue. Highly unlikely, there was probably a mistake with the boards graphic stencil. You should research the issue well before reversing that cap which will probably be a mistake to do.

3.9v is not really an issue, i have seen in 3com switches 50v caps when the psu is 24v. It is obviously for the 3.3v

You have the boards leds to guide you although it is going to alarm with no cpu or ram installed. without cpu it will hang first in the sequence with red red red red, without ram it will hang third in the sequence with
red red green red

Replacing the 1 1500uf 6.3v cap with 3300uf 6.3v Nichicon PL cap i would not agree on although i am not one to give advice on the mods, prefer to stay by the book. better 2200, mess with the voltage rather than the uf . tc or kc8 is better to advise.

[kc8adu]

you can get away with increasing the capacitance quite a bit in many boards.
in most cases it improves stability esp when overclocking.
i have 2 694d that i used 3300@10v near the vrms and cpu's and 1500@6.3v in place of the small 1000 everywhere else.
i got 12 reels of 1500@6.3 smt low esr nearly free so on my own stuff i use them.these 694's run 24/7 without a glitch for months at a time.

[bushytails]

"You should research the issue well before reversing that cap which will probably be a mistake to do." Yep, I plan to.

Both of the boards have identical sets of capacitors (with, coincidentally, the same ones leaking and swollen), so it's highly unlikely either one is a recap... plus, the one with it backwards, I bought from someone who claimed it was new, never used. (was still sealed in the original box, and when I got it, all the caps were flat.

Topcat posted on https://www.badcaps.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=290 that C390 _should_ be backwards...

In either case, I'll clip my 'scope on the cap before replacing it, and make sure the new one is whichever way gives it a positve voltage.


As to increasing the capacitance... I've never had a problem doing it before (of course, that doesn't mean much. . I can't think of any time it would be a problem, except for some odd voltage regulator design. Many electrolytics have a -20%, +100% rating (I don't know what the rating of the Tayeh cap is, or even if it has a published tolerance...), so 3300 isn't even that far out.

Now that I have 3 boards to do instead of 2, I'm ordering some more caps... going to use a nichicon 1800uf 6.3v cap in its place most likely, which avoids the whole issue. (all I had left bigger than 1500 was 3300... but if I'm ordering more, might as well order the right values!)

I was going to use 1000uf @ 10v in place of the 1000uf @ 6.3v... mostly since I can order fewer different values and save money. I might decide to use 1200uf @ 6.3v though.


In most cases I'm using caps one size larger (12.5mm instead of 10, 10 instead of 8), simply because a) that's what I have, and b) that's what I can get more of cheaply. I only have 7 low-esr 1200uf @ 6.3v panasonic 8mm ones left, going to save them for when I get a board I really can't fit bigger ones in.

I'll end up with at least three on their sides for this recap... no other way to fit the bigger ones in around the pci slots without getting in the way.

With cramming the 12.5mm ones in place of the 10mm ones, the 10mm ones in place of the 8mm ones, and at least three caps on their sides, the 694ds aren't going to be the prettiest recaps I've done... but they should work.


kc8adu: I'll take one of those reels if you don't need them.


--Randy

[willawake]

good luck with your recapping and thanks all for the info about increasing cap values

[bushytails]

mmmmm, shiny... ups guy just handed me these:


A quick shot of some of the buldging caps on the first board in the pile:


Unfortunately, I'm rather ill at the moment (some type of flu/cold/sore throat thing), and don't think playing with a 450 degree iron is smart today.

The caps on this board aren't very swollen, although they all are... my other 694d board is in far, far worse shape (four vented out the tops, the others all close), but is still running. However, this board has all the symptoms of bad caps (sometimes won't even init the video card) despite them not being very toasted-looking, so going to recap it and see if it works.

I'll post "after" pics too at some point. Some caps are oversized (I'll be using 10mm in place of all the 8mm ones), so might be a tad ugly, but should work. I've decided to use 2200uf in place of the 2700uf ones, due to not being able to find 10mm caps that size, and deciding it would be a real pain to squish 13mm ones in next to the heat sink.


--Randy

[willawake]

dude you ordered a lot of caps. we are gonna have to see a pic of the recap effort.

[bushytails]

There's about 150 new caps there, and the 35 in front in the tray left over from my last order... all nichicon low-esr high-temp. Total cost for the new ones $25 + $5 shipping. Average of $0.16/cap. Maybe not the best deal, but compared to what the local store gets for caps...

Each of the 694ds is 19 caps, and my FIC KA-11 with 17... plus since I seem to end up doing this fairly often, enough spares for whatever boards cross my path next.

I ordered too many 12.5mm ones, such as the 2700uf 6.3v, that I decided to use 2200uf 10mm in their place... oh well, I'm sure I'll use them someday.


--Randy

[willawake]

Average of $0.16/cap

that is a good price

[MD Willington]

My last quote was for 1000uF @ 0.20 x200, & 1500uF @ 0.23x200, minimum order of 400 pieces from my supplier.

MD