Instant diagnosis of bad video board caps?

[RonCam]

Two words to best describe the X300SE

... perhaps you should add a fan to it?

It's not worth the price of a fan. Read the last two words in the first sentence of this post. That's pretty accurate.

Another review at the time of its release questioned why it existed at all, and finished by saying, it's a nice board for an "office machine".

It was slightly better than the average onboard video chip -- of seven years ago. I just want to keep it going until the motherboard is replaced. The cost of four caps plus postage is just about right, to invest in an X300SE.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Instant diagnosis of bad video board caps?

The caps in your photo are Teapo but given you haven't said [and no one asked - wass up with that?] what series they are know one knows what the original specs are.
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Suggesting what to use without knowing that is just guessing.
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[RonCam]

Re: Instant diagnosis of bad video board caps?

Thanks for asking the right question!

I will open the case again and look for -- what, a two or three character alpha-numeric code printed somewhere on the insulating sleeve, and this would be the 'series'?

So far I have only measured their dimensions and noted their maximum temperature ratings (that's 105C).

I'm used to replacing, years ago, the electrolytics in power supplies, so this level of refinement is new to me. I will check on this and post, so you can tell me what to do with this.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Instant diagnosis of bad video board caps?

Teapo ~usually~ marks the series in the same line as the temp rating.
Very often the temp rating and series name run together like one statement.
The "A3" I see in one photo isn't it. That's a date or batch code or similar.
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My wild guess is that those are SC or SZ series. [Just a guess.]
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[PCBONEZ]

Re: Instant diagnosis of bad video board caps?

I'm used to replacing, years ago, the electrolytics in power supplies, so this level of refinement is new to me. I will check on this and post, so you can tell me what to do with this.

Years ago power supplies were not powering devices where the difference between a logic "0" and a logic "1" was a fraction of a volt.
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More recent stuff has to have very little Ripple in the power to avoid logic errors and that has made ESR a very big deal.
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[RonCam]

Re: Instant diagnosis of bad video board caps?

Teapo ~usually~ marks the series in the same line as the temp rating.
Very often the temp rating and series name run together like one statement.
The "A3" I see in one photo isn't it. That's a date or batch code or similar.
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My wild guess is that those are SC or SZ series. [Just a guess.]
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Thanks for the pointers, as without that I would have guessed the wrong number. This is what we have on the Teapo 1000uF 6.3V:

SC105ºC -- so it's an SC.

There are three of these, and one of these:
Sanyo 470uF 16V 105ºC S.E.56
WG

I have these in my Shopping Cart on this site:
3 x 1000uF 6.3v 10mm HN Series (Nichicon)
3 x 1000uF 10v 10mm MCZ Series (Rubycon)
1 x 470uF 16v 8mm HN Series (Nichicon)
1 x 470uF 25v 8mm PX Series (Rubycon)

The Rubycons are exactly the same height as the OEM caps and the Nichicons are just 2mm higher. Either will be fine as a mechanical fit, as there's plenty of room, vertically. The price difference is negligible.

I was intending to keep one selection of 4 caps, and delete the others, then place the order.

I'm confused as to how to compare the specs since the series codes are all different.

Any suggestions on which I should choose would be most appreciated!

And, if all are electronically-suitable, then I'll likely order the ones that are exact-height replacements.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Instant diagnosis of bad video board caps?

What is the diameter and height of the SC.
With that I can find [or estimate if it's a custom size] the actual specs.
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I will show the data sheet so you can see what I'm doing.
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PX is Rubycon but it's not a low ESR series.
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[RonCam]

Re: Instant diagnosis of bad video board caps?

What is the diameter and height of the SC.

The original Teapo is 10mm(D) x 12mm(H).

I will show the data sheet so you can see what I'm doing.

That will be great -- I am curious about that.

Note: I think I have the height of the replacements mixed-up, between the two brands, in a prior post. The originals are all 12mm high. And, there would be clearance if the replacements had to be a bit higher.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Instant diagnosis of bad video board caps?

The Teapo SC 1000uF 6.3V 10x12mm is totally straight forward.
Just look it up in the table: ESR = .080 Ohms / Ripple = 690 mA [Both at 100kHz]
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You want a cap with that ESR [or less] -and- that Ripple [or more].
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What I thought I would have to show is what to do for custom can sizes the aren't in the data sheet.
When that comes up go to the uF and volts -then- [disregarding uF and volts now] find the closest cap with the same can size as the custom one you are spec'ing.
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The reason is [*within a series*] ESR and Ripple track with the can size, not uF or volts.
Does not work from one series to another, just in the same series.
If you look in the data sheet for a Series of a good brand caps ...
.. all the [put any can size here] will have the same ESR and Ripple regardless of uF and Volts.
[See the MCZ data sheet I attached to see what I mean. Picked because the data table is one page.]
Crap brands are not so dead-on consistent but they still generally track the same way.
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So: *within a series*, same can size = same ESR and Ripple [or pretty darned close]
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[RonCam]

Re: Instant diagnosis of bad video board caps?

The Teapo SC 1000uF 6.3V 10x12mm is totally straight forward.
Just look it up in the table: ESR = .080 Ohms / Ripple = 690 mA [Both at 100kHz]
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You want a cap with that ESR [or less] -and- that Ripple [or more].

Great, now I see what to look for, out of all the values there. I suspected that might be it when I first looked, but wasn't sure.

If you look in the data sheet for a Series of a good brand caps ...
.. all the [put any can size here] will have the same ESR and Ripple regardless of uF and Volts.
[See the MCZ data sheet I attached to see what I mean. Picked because the data table is one page.]

The earlier .pdf opened fine, but this one won't. On this end of the line, it's mostly blank with a sprinkling of mathematical symbols, throughout. Obviously, corrupted during transmission? Could you please resend that, in some way?

• And, when I'm able to view it, may I assume this data sheet will illustrate the Rubycon caps (see earlier post, Contents of Shopping Cart) are the ones I should be going ahead with, for both values?

Thanks for your effort and careful explanation! And, if I misinterpreted your recommendation (blue type above), then kindly clarify.

I want to go ahead with my order ASAP because when I looked for the Series Code earlier, I also gave each cap a good 'wiggle' to see if that would fix the intermittent problem -- with the result that it did, it made it permanent!

So now I am without video on the Desktop machine, the reason for my asking to confirm what you're showing me. Your advice comes just in time.

[RonCam]

Re: Instant diagnosis of bad video board caps?

Apologies -- regarding an unreadable .pdf file. As my desktop machine is unusable at the moment (see above) I am continuing with a 7" netbook. I have accessed the Rubycon site, found a pdf spreadsheet, and am unable to read it!

Possibly there may be an incompatibility with Wincows 7? I use the evince, here.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Instant diagnosis of bad video board caps?

You don't probably do not need to replace the Sanyo, just the Teapos.
Sanyo are good jap caps.

For the 3x 1000uF 6.3v Teapo either the HN or the MCZ will work fine.
I'd go for the shorter one on a video card.

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I changed the applicable portion of the MCZ data sheet to a jpg so you can read it.

[RonCam]

Re: Instant diagnosis of bad video board caps?

Apologies -- ... Possibly there may be an incompatibility with Wincows 7? I use the evince, here.

Apologies again, for writing inaccurate/incomprehensible sentences, that should have read: "Possibly there is something in the .pdf files from that manufacturer, that's incompatible with the evince document reader, that I'm using on the netbook."

Whatever the cause, the image file was a good choice to resolve any problem, thanks.

You don't probably do not need to replace the Sanyo, just the Teapos. Sanyo are good jap caps.
For the 3x 1000uF 6.3v Teapo either the HN or the MCZ will work fine.
I'd go for the shorter one on a video card.

If I were to replace the 470uF Sanyo, I trust the same advice would hold, i.e., the brand makes no difference?

You're right about the reliability of Sanyos, in general ... but, just to make sure I have a functioning board, I'll want to include a 470uF cap in my order. I'll replace the Teapos first, fire up the system, then use the other -- but only if the board's still dead. One extra cap = cheap insurance!

So, this should do it, until my caps arrive.
Many, many thanks for the detailed advice!

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Instant diagnosis of bad video board caps?

If I were to replace the 470uF Sanyo, I trust the same advice would hold, i.e., the brand makes no difference?

Brand doesn't matter but the specs do.
Sanyo WG are a much better grade [better ESR] than the Teapo SC.
Sanyo WG 470uF 16v 8x11.5mm has ESR = .036 & Ripple = 1140.
The HN 470uF 16v 8x11.5mm has ESR = .021 & Ripple = 1300 [It's better than WG.]
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The PX is not a low ESR cap so ESR isn't listed at all and it's Ripple is only 440. - Not good enough.
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