Randall RG200G3 oscillation woes

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  • Khron
    Badcaps Legend
    • Sep 2006
    • 1350
    • Finland

    #1

    Randall RG200G3 oscillation woes

    So, i bought the (faulty) electronics out of a Randall RG200G3 guitar combo a few years ago, and at the time, determined that one of the output transistors had failed shorted.

    Here's the kicker: the power amp employs lateral MOSFETs (@SK1058 & 2SJ162)
    You can find the schematics over here.

    Finding replacements that 1) can be had, 2) aren't fakes, and 3) don't cost an arm and a d*ck was about as successful as finding hen's teeth, as you might imagine.

    So recently i got a devious idea - retrofit a more conventional BJT output stage. I "mocked up" the circuit in LTspice, and got a seemingly working option easily enough. I then whipped up a board in Eagle, then drilled & scored the PCB in an afternoon.

    I went with some free OnSemi samples i got ages ago - MJE15032/33 drivers, and MJW21195/6 output transistors. All was well, until i got to the biasing stage. As soon as i approach the "optimal bias" area (ie. around 2V across the Vbe multiplier), the thing breaks into oscillation

    Preemptively, i had already added a 100pF drain-to-gate cap across the MOSFET source-follower that drives the power stage (since "even" the simulation broke into oscillation without that), but that doesn't seem to have helped much.

    Attached you'll find the schematic of the power section (screenshot and LTspice file), as well as the (zipped) triode library.

    I'd dearly appreciate some thoughts and ideas
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Khron; 08-06-2018, 11:20 AM.
    Khron's Cave - Electronics - Audio - Teardowns - Mods - Repairs - Projects - Music - Rants - Shenanigans
  • budm
    Badcaps Legend
    • Feb 2010
    • 40746
    • USA

    #2
    Re: Randall RG300 oscillation woes

    It looks like you have positive feedback from the output to the Grid of U2.
    Did you also do the frequency sweep?
    How about the traces layout of the PCB?
    Last edited by budm; 08-06-2018, 10:41 AM.
    Never stop learning
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    • Khron
      Badcaps Legend
      • Sep 2006
      • 1350
      • Finland

      #3
      Re: Randall RG300 oscillation woes

      "Looks like", from the schematic?

      I've yet to do any frequency sweeps. The oscillating behaviour was noticed with no input signal, when i was trying to bias the output stage (by tweaking the trimpot in the Vbe multiplier circuit).

      The PCB though, may or may not be the culprit.
      Attached Files
      Khron's Cave - Electronics - Audio - Teardowns - Mods - Repairs - Projects - Music - Rants - Shenanigans

      Comment

      • Khron
        Badcaps Legend
        • Sep 2006
        • 1350
        • Finland

        #4
        Re: Randall RG300 oscillation woes

        PS: On a hunch, i hooked up a 4.5ohm load at the output, and that seems to keep the thing stable upon reaching proper bias. The previous testing had been with no load connected.
        Khron's Cave - Electronics - Audio - Teardowns - Mods - Repairs - Projects - Music - Rants - Shenanigans

        Comment

        • petehall347
          Badcaps Legend
          • Jan 2015
          • 4426
          • United Kingdom

          #5
          Re: Randall RG300 oscillation woes

          i can get those lateral fets from here .. http://nikkoe.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=2sj162
          i have used them in my 400 watt amp no problems at all

          there are also good modern subs too . ECX10N20 ECX10P20
          Last edited by petehall347; 08-06-2018, 02:49 PM.

          Comment

          • Khron
            Badcaps Legend
            • Sep 2006
            • 1350
            • Finland

            #6
            Re: Randall RG300 oscillation woes

            You'll have to excuse me if i don't find that particular source trustable at all.

            First of all, "HitaTchi"?
            Second, the description - "2SJ162 HITACHI SILICON N-FET V-MOS, S-L, 160V, 7A". Except for the fact that the 2SJ162 is a P-channel lateral MOSFET.

            And those Exicon FETs are over 5gbp a piece at Profusion PLC (while none of the major distributors, ie. Mouser / Farnell / Digikey carry them), which would bring the total to over 30gbp plus shipping. Thanks, but i think i'll pass
            Khron's Cave - Electronics - Audio - Teardowns - Mods - Repairs - Projects - Music - Rants - Shenanigans

            Comment

            • petehall347
              Badcaps Legend
              • Jan 2015
              • 4426
              • United Kingdom

              #7
              Re: Randall RG300 oscillation woes

              so they got the description wrong .. i can tell you those ones do not blow up . i have run them flat out for 3 days and nights solid without a break .
              sorry that i tried to help .

              Comment

              • Khron
                Badcaps Legend
                • Sep 2006
                • 1350
                • Finland

                #8
                Re: Randall RG300 oscillation woes

                Don't get me wrong, i appreciate it (and my apologies in case i came across otherwise), but it just raises a couple questions too many, for that kind of money
                Khron's Cave - Electronics - Audio - Teardowns - Mods - Repairs - Projects - Music - Rants - Shenanigans

                Comment

                • petehall347
                  Badcaps Legend
                  • Jan 2015
                  • 4426
                  • United Kingdom

                  #9
                  Re: Randall RG300 oscillation woes

                  ok fair enough ... when i bought them i thought same way so talked to them on the phone and they said they had sold lots and never had one back . have had other obsoletes from there and never a problem unlike the Chinese knock offs that cause more damage straight away than when the originals had blown .

                  Comment

                  • petehall347
                    Badcaps Legend
                    • Jan 2015
                    • 4426
                    • United Kingdom

                    #10
                    Re: Randall RG200G3 oscillation woes

                    good luck taming the oscillations .
                    not used to seeing m .. i prefer 0.1 ..
                    Last edited by petehall347; 08-06-2018, 06:51 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Khron
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 1350
                      • Finland

                      #11
                      Re: Randall RG200G3 oscillation woes

                      In LTspice, "m" is mili, and "meg" is mega.
                      Khron's Cave - Electronics - Audio - Teardowns - Mods - Repairs - Projects - Music - Rants - Shenanigans

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