Replacing BGA components with hot air.

[rhomanski]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

You should most definitely get it. The seller got what he wanted for a working unit. You got screwed. As far as better parts, I think you should look at the other parts. If the whole thing is cheap and likely to fail go with the cheaper. That also depends on the price difference too. On my stuff, I usually upgrade unless it's going to cost me $1000 instead of $25. I usually buy Nichicon because they're only 5 cents more.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

you paid for a working unit, it's not your job to repair it.
tell the seller to replace it or refund the money.

Replacing it isn't an option, because it's the only one he had (unless he buys one specifically to send). I'm okay with repairing it, so long as I get something for repairing it. I don't think I should have to pay full price and have to work 12 hours getting this thing fixed. But at the same time, I don't want to send it back. More than likely, FedEx broke it. So more than likely, they're going to pay some money, if not all of it, to someone. I think I should be the one getting the money, not the seller. What do you think?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Sorry to hear about your trouble Spork. I know exactly what you are going through. Just imagine someone handed it to you all tore up and gave you the new part and then went home. That was my job for years. Misery loves company. Lol. You'll get it done I'm confident.

Yeah, from the sounds of it, that's exactly what's going to happen. After the seller asked me to take a good one out and measure it, I sent him a message saying I had accomplished the task and that it took around 6 hours. When I first started, I sent him a message saying it was going to be harder than I thought and was going to take a while (after I looked at it a bit).

So, I see he sent me a message and it says not to take it apart, in case FedEx wants to see the damaged part! After I spent 6 hours taking it apart!!! I thought he knew it needed to be completely ripped apart in order for me to remove one of the good ceramic heating elements and measure it.

I really hope I didn't mess things up. I think it was just miscommunication, you know? But now I gotta make a decision. I'm pretty sure these really really cheap 12.45$ 220v / 230v 600 watt infrared heating elements are the exact same ones used in this unit: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-...08.4.44.SJfZF9

Even the lettering is the same. It looks identical, the way the coils are routed, the clip, the wording, the spacing of the words, the length of the words, everything. Since I got it all torn apart, do I just put one of those extremely cheap heating elements in, or, since I got it all torn apart, do I order some nice Elstein's or something and upgrade the unit?

I'm not going to do anymore until we figure out what FedEx is going to do...but when it comes time, what would you guys do? Upgrade the unit or just use the same cheap part? Thanks.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Well, I got the old one out. It took around 6 hours. I thought I was almost there when I originally posted but no, I had a bit more work to do. Someone had taken the original top bling off around the preheater for some reason. I could tell because the screws were stripped. I can't figure out why they'd do that, unless they were trying to replace the heating element, like I was. At first, I thought that was how it came apart so I took the top bling off...but then I realized it was just for decoration and actually served no real purpose...which leads me to wonder why someone would have removed that (with the wrong sized screw driver, none-the-less).

[stj]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

you paid for a working unit, it's not your job to repair it.
tell the seller to replace it or refund the money.

[rhomanski]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Sorry to hear about your trouble Spork. I know exactly what you are going through. Just imagine someone handed it to you all tore up and gave you the new part and then went home. That was my job for years. Misery loves company. Lol. You'll get it done I'm confident.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Right. I was hoping if FedEx paid for it, the guy would just split the cash with me. However, it seems that he's just going to send me the missing part. It's a heck of a lot harder getting to those IR heating elements than you'd think. I thought I could just remove the top cover and go from there, but nope. I had to pretty much tear the whole thing apart. Wires needed to be unhooked but they're crimped to wires that go to different areas, so multiple parts needed to be removed (or I could of tried decrimping the wires, which I think would have been a bad idea).

So far, 4 hours of work and I'm almost there. Putting it back together is probably going to take a lot longer because I'm going to have to keep looking at the pictures I took to figure out how all the wires are wound. There's wires that go into harnesses with other wires, I had to unwind some of the wire harnesses, cut wire ties, etc. What a freaking mess!

[stj]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

you may find the lcd display is cracked or some other "hidden" damage too.
of course none of this explains the missing parts!

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

I contacted FedEx and gave them the shipping number. They said the seller has already initiated a claim. They explained the whole process to me. They said the seller has to submit pictures of the damage and proof of price (how much the unit is worth). Then, they'll make a decision in 5-7 days. If it's denied, they'll give a reason as to why it's denied in a letter.

If it's approved, they'll mail the seller a check for what the unit is worth. Now, if the seller gets a check for what the unit's worth, it's just a question of whether he's going to give me the whole amount or just enough to buy a replacement part and fix it myself.

I'm hoping I get the whole amount. It's gonna be a lot of work to replace the component. I'm not even sure replacing it is enough. From what I've been reading, there might be some calibration that's required. If one of the heating elements is putting out a lot more heat than the other ones, that might cause some issues, you know? Warpage, etc. I might have to send the unit out and get it calibrated, I dunno.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

So, before you guys posted back, I had unpacked the unit to see if there was any more damage. I found a piece of metal floating around, looks like it broke off of something. However, I don't think it came from this unit. I unpacked it, there's a missing transformer for the CCD camera or for the monitor, they both use a 12 transformer so I'm not sure which one it's for. The monitor says 12v / 4A. The transformer says 12v / 3A. I couldn't see the small CCD camera using 3A so I think maybe it's for the monitor. That's not a big deal though, I can just find a transformer.

Then the suction pen is missing the actual suction cup on it. I was hoping that'd be intact because I really wanted to use it to lift chips. I've contacted Scotle to see how much an IR heating element and suction cup would cost.

The seller is contacting FedEx. I sent all the pictures they asked me to send. They wanted pictures of the inside of the box, the outside, etc. For the most part, the box looks okay. I mean, there's small damage in the corner and you can tell, looking at the foam, that it's been dropped.

What happens if FedEx is found to be at fault? Do they pay to get the unit fixed? Do I have to send the item back and the seller gives me a refund and takes it up with FedEx? I'd rather keep the unit and fix it myself, but I feel I shouldn't have to pay for the parts and should get something for my troubles. I agree that more than likely, FedEx dropped it somewhere along the way. It could have been packaged better as well.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

I feel very sorry for you Hope you get a replacement or a refund..

[diif]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

I wouldn't touch it any further until you hear back.

[stj]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

fedex probably did that, they only have one guy in the truck, and that bitch is too heavy for one guy.
i know someone who worked for fedex btw, you dont want to know how they load the trucks, it's done with an elevated conveyer that drops the parcels on the loading bay behind the truck!

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Contact the seller and send them your photos.
Avoid that flux, looks fake to me, buy from a genuine dealer. I buy 4300 and 559 from a genuine seller in 10cc and then I add a needle nozzle(screws straight on) and a syringe as a plunger.
https://ultrakeet.com.au/write-ups/fluxInfo

Looks like its just one heater, but that's poor packaging, my top heater and its mount came boxed separately.

Thanks, I've contacted the seller and sent photos. I'm waiting for his response. I couldn't figure out why he didn't box the top heater separately until I tried moving it.

The top heater has a wire. That wire connects to the top heater and is removable. You just unscrew it and pull the wire out. The other end of the wire screws into the base unit. However, it's a much cheaper plastic connector. If you unscrew it, it doesn't come apart as far as I can tell. The screw part seems to be just for looks! I can send pictures. I didn't want to pull too hard for fear of breaking it. I'm thinking I'm probably going to have to replace that broken ceramic heating element. I'm going to have to tear apart the whole unit to get to it, unsolder it, etc. I won't do anything until the owner gets back to me. However, if I gotta take it apart, I would probably replace some components with nicer ones.

[diif]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Contact the seller and send them your photos.
Avoid that flux, looks fake to me, buy from a genuine dealer. I buy 4300 and 559 from a genuine seller in 10cc and then I add a needle nozzle(screws straight on) and a syringe as a plunger.
https://ultrakeet.com.au/write-ups/fluxInfo

Looks like its just one heater, but that's poor packaging, my top heater and its mount came boxed separately.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

I'm freaking out. Supposedly, FedEx came and knocked on my door today but I didn't hear anyone freaking knock. My mentally challenged brother, who lives next door with my parents, was the only one home there. He went out and said the FedEx man made him sign for the package and help him carry it to the house. When my parents got home, they said this giant package was on the door steps. My dad said it was sideways, it has arrows and shit saying this side up but it was upside down. Anyway, here's pictures of the unit! I just opened it up to make sure everything was there.

I could tell what happened. The top heater was disconnected and laying on top of the IR preheater module or whatever you want to call it. Someone dropped the box or something and that heavy top heater smashed the freaking pre-heater module thing.

I have no idea what to do now. I contacted the seller and let him know via e-bay messages.

I'm thinking FedEx never knocked on my door. I figure my brother seen the truck, ran out there and said he'd take the package. I figure he helped them carry it and he claims he gently set his end down but the FedEx guy just dropped his end. I think if anything, it was the other way around. Or it got damaged in shipping. What the heck do I do??

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

I found the answer about the cleaning:

4300/LF-4300-TF is a water washable tacky flux that
can be left on the board for many SMT assemblies.
For applications requiring cleaning, 4300/LF-4300-TF
can be cleaned using di-ionized water at 40-60 °C
with a recommended water pressure of 30-50 PSI.

I've heard of distilled water before. I wonder if that's the same as di-ionized. No idea how I'd get 30-50 PSI of it on the board though. Hopefully, everything I do, it won't require cleaning.

I should add, I want a jar of the stuff, not a syringe. Thanks.

I think I found it, this stuff is what I'm going for:
http://www.solderandmore.com/4300-ta...a-75-gram-jar/

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Amtech 4300. Nice and sticky.

Thanks Diif. Amtech LF-4300, right? LF for Lead-Free I think. It says it's washable no clean flux. I'm guessing that means if I decided I wanted to wash it, it'd wash off but I don't actually have to wash it off...

I've heard there's a lot of fake flux floating around out there. Any reputable sources for the Amtech LF-4300? Thanks.

[stj]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

you can lift the chip, clean old flux from the chip and board and put it down again with original solder.
you can inspect for bridging then.

[diif]

Re: Replacing BGA components with hot air.

Amtech 4300. Nice and sticky.