The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

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  • PedroDaGr8
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2006
    • 130

    #21
    Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

    God, don't get me started on the fear-mongering that goes on in the public. I am a inorganic/environmental chemist in training (graduate student). Anytime you call a chemical by its real name people get scared. It seems people have been trained to fear any words that end in -ium, -ide, -ate, etc. For example, judge your reaction if I told you about the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide. Let that sink in, and you can see what I mean. Now don't get me wrong, there are some truly toxic compounds out there, such as SF6 (Sulfur Hexafluoride), a gaseous insulator in power transformers, which destroys the ozone and has 1300x better IR reflectivity than CO2. Likewise there are other compounds that need to be carefully watched, like PCBs and the related Polychlorophenols(PCPs). Compounds that contain "soft" metals like Pb, Cd, etc. are quite hazardous. Side note when I say soft I mean a particular type of metal that reacts and behaves a certain way, not that they are actually SOFT, though many are. The fact of the matter is, I believe that we will reach a point where we realize that ALL compounds are hazardous in large amounts. It is just a matter of time before the government tries to regulate everything.

    Comment

    • PeteS in CA
      Badcaps Legend
      • Aug 2005
      • 3578
      • USA, Unsure of Planet

      #22
      Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

      Drinking too much dihydrogen monoxide can kill you ... and if you inhale too much, it's just like drowning.
      PeteS in CA

      Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
      ****************************
      To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
      ****************************

      Comment

      • PedroDaGr8
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2006
        • 130

        #23
        Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

        hahaha, speaketh of the devil check out this site

        http://www.dhmo.org/

        Comment

        • willawake
          Super Modulator
          • Nov 2003
          • 8457
          • Greece

          #24
          Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

          13 December 2006: The European Parliament voted on the final adoption of the REACH Regulation. The Council is expected to formally adopt the new regulation at the Environment Council on 18 December 2006. REACH will enter into force on 1 June 2007.
          http://ec.europa.eu/environment/chem...each_intro.htm

          i was reading an article recently about RoHS where it was saying that the regulation was not being enforced, the companies were not being inspected

          maybe REACH will get rid of Phthalates in sextoys?
          http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/content...enuPoint=D-C-D
          Last edited by willawake; 12-15-2006, 02:39 AM.
          capacitor lab yachtmati techmati

          Comment

          • japlytic
            Badcaps Legend
            • Oct 2005
            • 2086
            • Australia

            #25
            Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

            Why didn't the RoHS Directive cover beryllium (particularly in RF power devices) and cadmium as well?
            There is still new stuff such as necklaces and charms (especially those for children! ) which contain lead - why would a contract to an overseas manufacturer did not specify the materials to be used?
            Examples included:
            http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07054.html
            http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07051.html
            If I manufactured toys, no hazardous chemicals would be used. The list of chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm applies.
            My first choice in quality Japanese electrolytics is Nippon Chemi-Con, which has been in business since 1931... the quality of electronics is dependent on the quality of the electrolytics.

            Comment

            • PedroDaGr8
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2006
              • 130

              #26
              Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

              Originally posted by arneson
              I have a real stink with Flourocarbons.
              I have totally filled data centers with Halon, a haloginated freon, the old formula, and had to exhaust it with fans.
              Now I know that those molecules chew up Ozone and Never go away.
              Women were spraying their hair with this stuff for years, and every car crash, there goes the AC freon.
              I blame Dupont for one, they are still making it and still selling it.
              Rant, rant...we are doomed I tell ya, Doom4.
              Heh, by the way haloginated freon is redundant, plus halon is a categorical name for all forms of halogenated refrigerants. For those that don't know or slept through highschool chemistry halogens are the elements in the second to last column of the periodic table (Fluorine, Chlorine, Bromine, Iodine, Astatine). These compounds while in pure form are highly reactive and poisonous, when found in salts and other compounds are harmless, such as iodized table salt (which contains a mixture of NaCl, KCl and KI). Freon-12 is DichloroDifluoromethane (CCl2F2). The reason that it is such a problem is that the chlorines stabilze the molecule preventing its break up in the lower atmosphere, instead allowing it to reach the stratosphere where finally high energy UV radiation tears it apart. Freeing the highly reactive F- anions. These are what tear apart the ozone. The ban on freon worked because all of the new compounds are either Hydrofluorocarbons or Fluorocarbons. No chlorine in the molecule to stabalize it and hte compound is degraded low in the atmosphere where it can't do any harm to the ozone layer. Also as an aside BromoFluorocarbons are just as bad, these were used commonly in airplane and on naval ships as fire supressents.
              Also for some more background information CFCs and BFCs are great fire suprresents, with the added benefit of being nontoxic. One can take in a breath of these and it won't kill or even harm you (provided of course there is siutable oxygen available).

              Also, someone mentioned berrilyium. A former labmate of mine who had a post doc at Los Alamos, discovered why Berrilyium causes lung cancer.

              Also, Gonzo, there is a simple reason that organic chlorides tend to be a problem. Chlorines are the first really reactive halide compound on the list (fluorinated organic compounds are super stable, fluorine just does not like to make F- anions, due to the fact that to have 10 e-s in its shell causes a lot of electrostatic repulsion compared to its size). Stability of the compound decreases as you go down the periodic table so F is most stable Cl next, then Br, then I, last would be At (though if I remember right it is radioactive so nothing is really made with it). THis is important to the problems that we see with chlorine containing compounds. They are reactive enough to react in the body and slowly in nature, but they are stable enough to persist in nature for quite a while. Whereas bromides will break down much more easily, and iodidies (well lets just say if I use them in a reaction I have to create it in situ because otherwise it will decompose to quickly). So what it is, is its not the chloride ion that is a problem, but in fact the interplay of strength and reactivity of the C-Cl bond, so you don't need to worry about chlorine in NaCl (now the sodium raises your BP but that is different).
              Last edited by PedroDaGr8; 12-17-2006, 07:44 PM.

              Comment

              • gonzo0815
                Badcaps Legend
                • Feb 2006
                • 1600

                #27
                Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

                Very interesting, and in wich products Berrilyium is used? AFAIR only fireworks are made with it?

                Comment

                • kc8adu
                  Super Moderator
                  • Nov 2003
                  • 8832
                  • U.S.A!

                  #28
                  Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

                  Originally posted by gonzo0815
                  Very interesting, and in wich products Berrilyium is used? AFAIR only fireworks are made with it?
                  beryllium is used in ceramics in metal/ceramic tubes like 4cx250,8877,2m172 ect.
                  i suspect it is used in rf power transistors like mrf247,2sc2879.
                  i use and handle these parts everyday.
                  safe but NEVER grind or do anything else to create dust with this stuff.

                  Comment

                  • PedroDaGr8
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2006
                    • 130

                    #29
                    Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

                    The reason that he was reasearching it in los alamos is that it is used as a radiation shield in glass. I think it has an excelent ability at absorbing neutrons. It ends up that elemental berrilyium forms a 10 atom ring that has the exact size to fit into a gene in the lungs and causes cancer. I am foggy on all of the details, it has been a few years since I was told about this.

                    Comment

                    • PeteS in CA
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Aug 2005
                      • 3578
                      • USA, Unsure of Planet

                      #30
                      Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

                      Beryllium ceramics used to be used to insulate TO-3//TO-204 and TO-66 devices from heatsinks. They have a lower thermal resistance than alumina ceramics.
                      PeteS in CA

                      Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
                      ****************************
                      To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
                      ****************************

                      Comment

                      • PedroDaGr8
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2006
                        • 130

                        #31
                        Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

                        Heh, I am still wondering when we are going to start using diamond as a thermal conductor. It has one of the highest thermal conductivites of any material (and at that it is an excelent electrical insulator) and for synthetic diamond at around $5/g not too too expensive (though I will admit I have no idea of the bilk prices of aluminium (i prefer the british ppronuciation ).

                        I need to stop commenting I am getting this way off track
                        Last edited by PedroDaGr8; 12-18-2006, 01:12 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Spacedye69
                          Badcaps Veteran
                          • Nov 2005
                          • 698
                          • US

                          #32
                          Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

                          Beryllium is also added to copper as a stronger alloy, mostly in aerospace. Another few things that aerospace contractors like is cadmium and hexavalent chrome. I've plated a lot of rework for DOD, DOE, and FAA regulated parts, and there 30 - 40 year old specs say cadmium plated from a cyanide solution and chrome plated from hexavalant chrome solutions. That is why they are still legal. Changing mil specs are too hard.

                          Comment

                          • MD Willington
                            Badcaps Veteran
                            • Sep 2004
                            • 702

                            #33
                            Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

                            I've seen Beryllium used in a pistol frame before too.
                            Ya'll think us folk from the country's real funny-like, dontcha?

                            The opinions expressed above do not represent those of BADCAPS.NET or any of their affiliates.

                            Comment

                            • PedroDaGr8
                              Senior Member
                              • Oct 2006
                              • 130

                              #34
                              Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

                              Originally posted by Spacedye69
                              Beryllium is also added to copper as a stronger alloy, mostly in aerospace. Another few things that aerospace contractors like is cadmium and hexavalent chrome. I've plated a lot of rework for DOD, DOE, and FAA regulated parts, and there 30 - 40 year old specs say cadmium plated from a cyanide solution and chrome plated from hexavalant chrome solutions. That is why they are still legal. Changing mil specs are too hard.
                              Heh, berriylium is an excelent alloying agent due to its small van der walls radii (basically size). The larger the difference between the two atoms, typically, the stronger the alloy you can make. Also, no suprise on the cyanide solution. I use copper cyanide all the time in many types of copper(II) catalyzed reactions. The reason is, the cyanide doesn't interefere with the reaction, because it is pretty stable and happy by it self, just have to be careful of thje conditions so there isn't any generation of HCN. As for hexavalent chrome. YEESH. Not as bad as Diethyl Mercury. A biologist last year died from one drop on her latex glove.

                              Comment

                              • japlytic
                                Badcaps Legend
                                • Oct 2005
                                • 2086
                                • Australia

                                #35
                                Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

                                Some action taken with the lead in children's jewellry.

                                CPSC Takes Step Forward In Effort to Protect Children From Hazardous Metal Jewelry

                                http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07070.html
                                My first choice in quality Japanese electrolytics is Nippon Chemi-Con, which has been in business since 1931... the quality of electronics is dependent on the quality of the electrolytics.

                                Comment

                                • PeteS in CA
                                  Badcaps Legend
                                  • Aug 2005
                                  • 3578
                                  • USA, Unsure of Planet

                                  #36
                                  Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

                                  No exemptions, except for China
                                  Mar 7 2007 7:12AM
                                  EDN.com
                                  March 1 has now passed, and the first phase of China RoHS is in effect. While the same six substances are restricted to the same concentrations as in the EU RoHS directive, China's version is markedly different (pun intended). It requires that all "electronic information products" (EIP) be appropriately marked with either a compliant or non-compliant label.

                                  That doesn't sound that difficult at first.

                                  But don't assume that China's view of "electronic information products" is the same as the EU's. China's law has a much broader scope, and offers NO EXEMPTIONS, except for its own exports, which do not have to comply. ...
                                  ...
                                  ... And products which contain any of the restricted substances are required to show the number of years before these substances will leak into the environment on a label. This is referred to as the "environment use period," but the law offers no guidance on how a manufacturer or exporter should determine this number, or how these products will be replaced after this term.
                                  PeteS in CA

                                  Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
                                  ****************************
                                  To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
                                  ****************************

                                  Comment

                                  • pentium
                                    Badcaps Legend
                                    • Mar 2006
                                    • 2778
                                    • Canada

                                    #37
                                    Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

                                    I sunburn more easily in ontario than I do in BC.
                                    I remember leaving toronto and from a distance you could see the pollution like it was a nearly transparent brown cloud.
                                    Find Nedry!


                                    Check the Vending machines!!

                                    <----Computer says I need more beer.

                                    Comment

                                    • MD Willington
                                      Badcaps Veteran
                                      • Sep 2004
                                      • 702

                                      #38
                                      Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

                                      Yeah but in Kamloops you can get a nasty sunburn at Sun Peaks or you can go to Creston and die from Kokanee poisoning..
                                      Ya'll think us folk from the country's real funny-like, dontcha?

                                      The opinions expressed above do not represent those of BADCAPS.NET or any of their affiliates.

                                      Comment

                                      • willawake
                                        Super Modulator
                                        • Nov 2003
                                        • 8457
                                        • Greece

                                        #39
                                        Re: The Nightmare After RoHS: REACH

                                        remember leaving toronto and from a distance you could see the pollution like it was a nearly transparent brown cloud.
                                        welcome to any big city...........

                                        anyway the thing is that yes china get RoHS approval on their products, checked by SGS and the products leave china all RoHS approved......but to make those products required huge pollution and most is emitted or dumped into the rivers and nobody gives a shit. china will become the most polluted nation eventualy........industry=pollution
                                        Last edited by willawake; 03-09-2007, 04:51 PM.
                                        capacitor lab yachtmati techmati

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