Hard crashes.

[Sat]

Hello.

I need some advice, folks. My PC going through hard crashes and i have a feeling that caps are the cause. I already replaced HD and PSU so i don't think they are problem. When i turn PC on it makes clicking sound, electric type, hard to describe, sometimes it dont make any sounds. Sometimes it boot longer like looping and when it happens CD_ROM are not detected. When it crash i need to wait few minutes befor i can turn it on, usualy i would need to unplug it from the wall and then plug it back in few times before anything happens and when its back it can boot instantly or PSU starts then quits so i have to push start button. Are these symptoms familiar to you?
There 2 caps with not so flat tops so i suspect them the most but i cant find such caps anywhere:

Yageo 1500uf 10v SC 105°C 10/01 (Thats all the info on them)

Any tips?

[retiredcaps]

Re: Hard crashes.

There 2 caps with not so flat tops so i suspect them the most but i cant find such caps anywhere:

Yageo 1500uf 10v SC 105°C 10/01 (Thats all the info on them)

If you live in the USA, Digikey has them for 62 cents each (Panasonic FM). See

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...name=P12356-ND

Shipping will be about $2.50.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Hard crashes.

I think it's important to teach people how to find good replacements vs just telling them what to get so here goes.

Yageo is Teapo's parent company.
Yageo SC are the same as Teapo SC.
Data sheet here:


Only one 10v 1500uF in the sheet and it's 0.039 ESR and 1450 Ripple.
[That ESR claim is probably a slight lie... 0.042-0.045 sounds more realistic.]

Choose caps rated for: the same [or more] ripple -and- the same [or less] ESR .
[And of course that physically fit.]
... And you should be fine.

The FM will work [in fact they are over-kill].
ESR 0.018 and Ripple 2470.

KZE are a little less over-kill at ESR 0.022 and Ripple 2150
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=565-1649-ND


Those are the only two at digikey that 'keep up' with that bogus ESR number,,, which you should do just in case they aren't lying.

You should replace ALL the Yageo of 470uF or more and of 6.3mm or larger diameter.
If some bloated the rest probably aren't far behind.

~~

As to the ticking...
Your drive controller might be screwing up because the bad caps are giving it noisy unclean power.

See if disconnecting both data and power to the optical drive[s] changes anything.

.

[kaniki]

Re: Hard crashes.

was the previous hard drive doing the same thing, or just the new one? if both are, then it may be the caps, but if only the second one did, then you may have gotten a bad hard drive. I have seen hard drives work fine for a week then go bad all of the sudden with no warning.


Also, what are you running and what are the power supplies that you used? Brand.. how many watts.. etc.. Just asking because if you are running a PC that has a powerful video card that requires something like a 300watt power supply and you only have a 300 or 350 watt in it, then you may not have enough power and may be part of the problem. some specs on your hardware in it can be helpful too.

[Sat]

Re: Hard crashes.

Thanks for the answers.
Its very old pc emachines t1105 and its worked for 10 years like champ. HDs are identical and PSUs came like this: 150w Bestec - 250w Athena - 300w. Original died thanks to storm. When i installed second PSU HD died just in matters of days. Second PSU died the same way just in very short amount of time so ive got new one from Marvic Int. There is no errors reported in events or anywhere else at the moment. Those are the only hardware changes on this pc.
Motherboard ID: 31571.em.0000.d.0110172030
Model: Anaheim.

I have no idea what ripple means people or any other terms what i need is safe bet. Something identical and safe to replace with i also have no clue what are those check boxes do?

[Sat]

Re: Hard crashes.

OK, i disconnected optic drive and there was no sound after two boots only one single click when plugged it in the wall first time. By the way i use power cable from previous PSU is it safe? Marvic tech support says its ok. They send me none.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Hard crashes.

Trigem Anaheim-3 Motherboard.

http://www.e4allupgraders.info/dir1/...erboards.shtml
http://www.e4allupgraders.info/dir1/...anaheim3.shtml
http://www.e4allupgraders.info/dir1/...oem_bios.shtml

I'll just say Trigem wasn't exactly the cream of the crop.
Some of them do okay. Good caps helps.

The cable shouldn't matter.

You may have a shorted motor or PCB in one of those optical drives which in some cases can pull the +12v or +5v low out of spec for the whole system.

Ripple is very much like EMI [noise, static, radio interference] except it's frequency and source are different.
Ripple is pulses [in the kHz range] in the power created by what is called 'switching'.
Switching is transistors turning on-off very fast. [Sometimes they are called 'switchers'.]
--
PC power supplies and the processor voltage regulator [VRM] use them. Some other voltage regulators on a mobo can too. That's why PC PSUs are called SMPS. It stands for Switch Mode Power Supply.
--
The capacitors we are generally concerned with here are used as 'filters'.
They 'filter' the Ripple out of the DC power to make the power nice and clean.
In simple terms they do so by 'shorting' the Ripple to ground while blocking the DC.
In other words [ideally] they are only a short circuit to Ripple.

ESR is how much they 'resist' Ripple passing through,, so a lower ESR is better.

The Ripple rating [in data sheets] is how much Ripple they can pass without over heating internally,, so a higher 'Ripple' rating is better.

~~
Bad caps means Ripple [noise, static] in the power.
Anything that gets power -might- not work right especially IC chips like: RAM, CPU, Main Chipset, Drive Controllers, LAN chips, Sound Chips, etc... that tend to have tight voltage tolerances.
.

[Sat]

Re: Hard crashes.

So should i order caps in your link, Pcbonez? What is the difference between item numbers?
By the way, clicking sound is back.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Hard crashes.

Buy caps where ever you want.
I can't suggest anything because you didn't enter your location in your profile.
This forum has a multi-national population.
-
I'm trying to show you how to compare specs so you get a good enough series.
- Find out what the old ones specs are. [Not always possible, that's when experience helps for a judgment call. But I showed you where/how to get the specs on those old ones.]
- Your old ones are spec'ed at 0.039 ESR and 1450 Ripple.
Pick new ones with the same or better specs.
If the ad doesn't have ESR / Ripple data or a link to a data sheet and you can't find one for them then buy somewhere else.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Hard crashes.

Take a piece of tubing maybe 24-30" long and 1/4" to 1/8" inside diameter.
[Doesn't matter what kind as long as it's smooth inside and flexible.]
Then hold one end in your ear and use the other to track down the noise, or at least about where it's coming from.
.

[Sat]

Re: Hard crashes.

I can't identify exact location where that sound coming from. If you ever heard dolphin clicky sound that would be it, very similar fast clicking. Ive marked general area where that sound appears to be strongest. if you know what could possibly make that sound please let me know.

And i live in Savoy, Illinois.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Hard crashes.

I just wanted to make sure it [noise] wasn't in the MOSFET area and it isn't.

This is a socket 370 board so the CPU [and the VRM] may be powered by +12v or +5v.
Using +5v is much more common.
[Intel said using +12v was 'preferred' by the i815 or i810 chipset but no one I know of actually did it until P4 was out. They left it on +5v for socket 370.]

Clicking:
- Check PSU-to-Mobo connector pins for signs of arcing. [Blackened or brown plastic, corroded or black looking connectors in the plugs.]
- Possibly the speaker is trying to beep but it's getting bad voltage.
- A set of good caps would probably fit it without ever knowing exactly what it was.

In the US the usual places are here [Bad Caps Net], Mouser, or Digikey.
I don't recommend eBay for anyone that can't spot counterfeit caps.
- There are lots of those there.
I wouldn't go to Mouser for this one. Digikey carries Panasonic FM and and Chemicon KZE and those are good enough for anything on that board. Here TC carries Rubycon MBZ and Rubycon ZL. - Rubycon MBZ are slightly better than FM. - FM are better than ZL or KZE. - ZL and KZE are the same grade.
[By better or worse grade my meaning is the Ripple/ESR ratings.]

.