Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

[ratdude747]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

So an SSD is okay (hey, they are modern consumable throwaway society junk, right?) but a Core i5 is not?

No, I wouldn't run either in a desktop for ME. Again, Classic truck guys don't drive Kia.

As for SSDs, since workstations tend to be bulky (and thus there is no true laptop equivlant, duh), they make sense for laptop use. Even with my laptops, however, I tend not to buy the best "bang for buck", as I tend to get used latitudes which are built like trucks (toughbooks are like tanks) and often have a lot of upgrade/tweaking/modding potential. No whitelists or the like. Until it was rendered uneconomical to keep fixing, my main laptop had an ivy bridge I7 (hell, you should know, as you sold me the lenovo I pulled it from!). toss in 8GB of RAM and an SSD (also bought off you one way or another) and it was a pretty fast system. So yes, I do see a use for really modern stuff (for me personally), and that be laptops.

Check Amazon screenshot. You don't need to spend the big bucks to have a nice system. Pick a nice case (plenty under $100 that are very good, or reuse one of those massive things you have), use some power supply and dvd drive you already, problem solved...

Again, Kia costs less than a properly restored/modded truck, yet you can't sell one to a classic truck guy as a lower cost replacement... You really don't get the "it's not about the specs (and cost)"?

You wouldn't need a computer in the next few years, would save a lot in power, reclaim many square feet of space, and not have to "tinker" to make your computer work. Oh, and it would be faster. No RAID arrays, no bizarre incompatibilities, no BS.

And no fun! No tinkering means I go BORED. That's right. Tinkering is a HOBBY. Not a chore. Again, what's the fun in buying. As the decal soon to go on my truck says:



The same goes for my rigs. 'Nuff said.

100% spot on right there. ECC memory is pointless unless it's a server that's on for hundreds of days at high loads. For p*rn and Facebook (or whatever it is rd747 uses a computer for) there is no benefit. I can't remember last time any of my desktops or laptops blue screened or crashed.

These systems require ECC Ram. Which by the way, also happens to be DIRT CHEAP. Like 8GB for $20 (last I checked). Why? Not because "it sucks" but because aside from old servers and workstations, nothing else CAN run it. Sure, few people do, but hey, I'm a unique guy, and I have a unique hobby.

And yes, sure, you go buy an HP, Acer, etc. junk cheapo Walmart computer, the hardware won't be very good. But at this point, as long as it's got an Intel processor, it'll run cool enough that even that will last. Get a Dell or build your own and you'll be fine for many years. It's the really bottom-of-the-barrel AMD junk that is problematic, but that doesn't mean that all new hardware made in the past 10 years is crap - it's not!

^still "consumer crap". Even if it's crap that stinks forever and fossilizes. Again, often times little to no room for improvement (unless you replace literally everything, which is self defeating), and they're built as a low cost means to an end. My workstations, however, are built because I love old workstations, because of what they are and that I find such fun to build , tinker, and troubleshoot. I don't suggest anybody else build such if they don't get a kick from this... but if you do, it's fun!

As for these kinds of builds....I still have 2 similar systems still in operation. Keep that old stuff runnin'!

AMEN. Finally somebody in this thread who sees it as something other than a urinal.

[Pentium4]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

I'm with ya. I mean, my username is P4 ffs...Cool to see people still using old hardware. What model are those Xeons again?

[ratdude747]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

I'm with ya. I mean, my username is P4 ffs...Cool to see people still using old hardware. What model are those Xeons again?

In this thread, gallatin. 3.06ghz for now...

[Pentium4]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

Nice. Does it support 90nm/65nm?

[ratdude747]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

^Gallatin was the last that this board could do. I have a system with irwindales though (X6da8-G2).

[Topcat]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

^Gallatin was the last that this board could do. I have a system with irwindales though (X6da8-G2).

I remember those....the sexy ES's sitting in the junk drawer!

[luke10050]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

I think what people are trying to say ratdude, is that you're using your money to build a computer that really isnt fit for the modern age. I mean sure it'll work, but theres no real garuntee that it will continue to work. Even most car guys just dont use all old parts. You should probably look at buying a new laptop that has some decent specs and try not to spend too much on well outdated equipment.
Hell, if you lived on my side of the world i'd almost give you a first gen i series motherboard and cpu. Coming from someone that jumped from "old" computers to new, there is quite a massive performance increase at no tradeoff to reliability.

Tl; dr: its fine to mess around with old computers as long as you dont spend money on them. A lesson i learned the hard way

[TechGeek]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

I have some old relics... A Seagate HDD with a 32GB alternate capacity, getting rarer...
...an old CMS late 90s computer... needs some troubleshooting... refusing to POST... and an old P4 Dell Dimension 2400 keeping Win2K cranking...

[ratdude747]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

I think what people are trying to say ratdude, is that you're using your money to build a computer that really isnt fit for the modern age. I mean sure it'll work, but theres no real garuntee that it will continue to work. Even most car guys just dont use all old parts. You should probably look at buying a new laptop that has some decent specs and try not to spend too much on well outdated equipment.
Hell, if you lived on my side of the world i'd almost give you a first gen i series motherboard and cpu. Coming from someone that jumped from "old" computers to new, there is quite a massive performance increase at no tradeoff to reliability.

Tl; dr: its fine to mess around with old computers as long as you dont spend money on them. A lesson i learned the hard way

I already have a newer laptop, the aformentioned dell latitude E5530 (soon to transferred to an E6430) with an Ivy Bridge i7 and an intel 520 SSD. Not brand new, but only a few years old (just over two in my current case). Faster than these rigs? Yes. (high 900's vs high 600's/700's in novabench). Better? Depends... from a portability perspective yes; from a usability perspective, no; from a custom tweaking perspective, no; and from a "uniqueness" perspective, absolutely not. My laptops (the rest are core 2 or older) serve a different purpose. It's comparing apples to pears; they're closer than either is to oranges but they sure aren't the same. In a way, it's like having a commute/grocery car for weekdays and a hot rod/racer for the weekends. Two different uses and needs.

On my rigs specifically. not to be a dick/douche/etc, but I've built 3 other rigs similar to this. 4 if you count one that didn't turn out (due to AMD not making x64 drivers for an opteron product, which is kinda self defeating) and was rebuilt into a current system. I know what I'm doing but it doesn't hurt to get other opinions of those who also understand. It's a discussion forum for crying out loud...

FYI- Here's links to my other builds if you want an Idea:

V2.5 (similar to this one, presently in fully operational condition):

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19538

V3.5 (my fastest and nicest rig, performance is pretty good for it's age)

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29851

(V3, linked in that thread, is the failed rig I speak of)

V_._/V4.1 (a rig I bought on ebay and tweaked the **** out of, has a few stability issues but runs great otherwise):

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=41187

Minus the latter, which lately likes to BSOD and reboot a lot (could be a PSU issue, it has the stock ablecom PSU which IIRC is pretty beefy?), they run well and do what I want. I like having a challenge and a unique rig. It's the nature of the beast, I know that well.

I have some old relics... A Seagate HDD with a 32GB alternate capacity, getting rarer...
...an old CMS late 90s computer... needs some troubleshooting... refusing to POST... and an old P4 Dell Dimension 2400 keeping Win2K cranking...

Meh, that's a different sort of old. I at least run win 7 on my stuff... more power to you if that's your bag; it ain't mine.

[ratdude747]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

I remember those....the sexy ES's sitting in the junk drawer!

Oh yeah. Oddly enough, they later came out with faster ones that are compatible... but these are too special to upgrade, unless they're why the system ain't stable; some engineering samples are sold that way with "known" quirks since they're released early to product developers/engineers (say the motherboard makers). It's a shame, it's a sweet rig otherwise.

[Topcat]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

Oh yeah. Oddly enough, they later came out with faster ones that are compatible... but these are too special to upgrade, unless they're why the system ain't stable; some engineering samples are sold that way with "known" quirks since they're released early to product developers/engineers (say the motherboard makers). It's a shame, it's a sweet rig otherwise.

I was trying to think back, I just don't remember where I got those. I did test them in a precison470, they worked without issue....but thats not to say they aren't without their quirks. I only have 2 HT era systems left, pair of Gallatins and of course the mystical yet awesome Paxvilles.

[ratdude747]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

^All I know is it randomly BSODs... IDK if it's a HDD/RAID issue or what. IIRC it memtested fine...

[ratdude747]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

Posting from this rig... using a live fedora DVD as clearly I don't have any sort of HDD setup. As usual, fedora seems dummied down compared to arch... I tried manjaro (based off arch) but thier live disc wasn't happy.

So far so good minus a rattling DVD drive... I'm thinking of painting it black and getting freshm drives as these drives are shit and while the white feels nostalgic, it doesn't match and is a **** to get things for these days (my audigy 2 front panel has both face plates, so going black is no issue there). All I need is some decent PATA black opticals, a pair of WD raptors, another AMCC/3ware 9550sx, and a decent card reader, and she will be golden.

edit- temps at light load are 43-46C on CPU1 and 40-42C on CPU2... the GPU is running at 60C. See the output of lm_sensors below

nouveau-pci-0100
Adapter: PCI adapter
temp1:    +60.0°C (high = +95.0°C, hyst = +3.0°C)
            (crit = +125.0°C, hyst = +2.0°C)
            (emerg = +135.0°C, hyst = +5.0°C)

max1617-i2c-3-18
Adapter: SMBus I801 adapter at 1100
temp1:    +39.0°C (low = -55.0°C, high = +127.0°C)
temp2:    +42.0°C (low = -55.0°C, high = +78.0°C)

max1617-i2c-3-1a
Adapter: SMBus I801 adapter at 1100
temp1:    +38.0°C (low = -55.0°C, high = +127.0°C)
temp2:    +45.0°C (low = -55.0°C, high = +78.0°C)

lm87-i2c-3-2e
Adapter: SMBus I801 adapter at 1100
in0:     +0.00 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V)
Vcore:    +0.00 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V)
+3.3V:    +3.39 V (min = +2.97 V, max = +3.63 V)
+5V:     +0.00 V (min = +4.50 V, max = +5.50 V) ALARM
+12V:     +0.00 V (min = +10.81 V, max = +13.19 V) ALARM
in5:     +0.00 V (min = +0.00 V, max = +0.00 V)
fan1:    2083 RPM (min = 1430 RPM, div = 8)
fan2:    2109 RPM (min = 1430 RPM, div = 8)
M/B Temp:   +48.0°C (low = +0.0°C, high = +0.0°C) ALARM
            (crit = +70.0°C)
CPU Temp:  +127.0°C (low = +0.0°C, high = +0.0°C) ALARM
            (crit = +85.0°C)
cpu0_vid:  +0.000 V

w83627hf-isa-0290
Adapter: ISA adapter
in0:     +1.47 V (min = +0.77 V, max = +1.86 V)
in1:     +3.34 V (min = +2.80 V, max = +3.79 V)
in2:     +3.26 V (min = +2.80 V, max = +3.79 V)
in3:     +2.91 V (min = +2.53 V, max = +3.42 V)
in4:     +3.15 V (min = +2.67 V, max = +3.62 V)
in5:     +0.58 V (min = +0.30 V, max = +0.99 V)
in6:     +1.79 V (min = +1.52 V, max = +2.06 V)
in7:     +3.04 V (min = +3.82 V, max = +0.38 V) ALARM
in8:     +3.04 V (min = +3.82 V, max = +2.98 V) ALARM
fan1:    3375 RPM (min = 1430 RPM, div = 8)
fan2:    3515 RPM (min = 1430 RPM, div = 8)
fan3:      0 RPM (min = 1430 RPM, div = 8) ALARM
temp1:    +43.0°C (high = +65.0°C, hyst = +60.0°C) sensor = thermistor
temp2:    +40.0°C (high = +75.0°C, hyst = +70.0°C) sensor = thermistor
temp3:    +38.5°C (high = +75.0°C, hyst = +70.0°C) sensor = thermistor
cpu0_vid:  +1.525 V
beep_enable: enabled

---

Not sure what to call this thing... the main rig designations broke down after 3.5 (as the next rig was not a "main rig" and not nearly as powerful)... and this one will not even eclipse V2.5 (as it's using that rig's hand me downs/spares). It's a cool rig, that's for sure.

Did I mention the rattling DVD drive is driving me nuts? Damn magicspin POS.

[diif]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

Is this right ? CPU Temp: +127.0°C (low = +0.0°C, high = +0.0°C) ALARM

[ratdude747]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

Is this right ? CPU Temp: +127.0°C (low = +0.0°C, high = +0.0°C) ALARM

yeah, that's a linux driver glitch on these boards; that's 127F being reported wrong.

[diif]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

I did wonder and why not SSDs instead of the Raptors ?

[ratdude747]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

I did wonder and why not SSDs instead of the Raptors ?

Cost, actual performance gain, and "style". It's an older workstatiion build... while newer ones I'm sure have SSD RAID arrays, I'm not building that. Also, I'm not going using a new enough controller to see much gain from SSDs; the newest real raid controller I can run is a AMCC 9550sx, which is SATA II. Yeah, SSDs may still be faster, But again, it's ultimately cost and style. I can get used raptors cheap enough that it's no comparison cost wise.

I know somebody is next going to point to some fakeraid SATA III card in PCI... No, just no. That's putting a fart can on a real hot rod... just stupid. A 9550SX, AFAIK the last 3ware card in PCI-X (and it could go all the way to 133MHZ), with a BBU, is the ONLY way I'm going with this one.

[Uranium-235]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

It's better to use LinuxRaid for Raid1 over fakeraid. A hardware card is good for 5/6

[Per Hansson]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

Re: SSD^^
This might interest you (or not)
At least for me I've managed to get really old systems flying by adding in a SSD this way with a mSATA > IDE adapter...

http://www.delock.de/produkte/G_62477/merkmale.html

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IDE-44pin-...-/161060554286

[ratdude747]

Re: Yet another Ratdude Workstation Build?

It's better to use LinuxRaid for Raid1 over fakeraid. A hardware card is good for 5/6

My BBU and write cache begs to differ. Besides, this is kinda a style thing.

Re: SSD^^
This might interest you (or not)
At least for me I've managed to get really old systems flying by adding in a SSD this way with a mSATA > IDE adapter...

http://www.delock.de/produkte/G_62477/merkmale.html

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IDE-44pin-...-/161060554286

Again, no on style grounds. I already have a faster system so it's not about performance in that sense. Within what was period more or less (I.E. what one would find in a workstation in the 2000's), sure, it matters to a degree. But for me at least, there is a bit of a "cool" factor to using a true hardware RAID controller (3ware especially, they seem pretty well designed).

---

I painted the case the other day. It turned out OK minus the fact that this paint (or at least the primer) doesn't stick the best (scratches off easy). Nothing a sharpie won't fix. I probably should have sanded it first (it was probably hot waxed as it was made by foxconn) but whatever. I'll work on getting pics.

I also got fans in today; I went with arctic cooling F series (two F8's in the front, and an F9 in the back)... sadly the latter I could only get in the PWM version, so it looks a little funny. I was going to go with the CO series (which uses 2 ball bearings intead of fluid dynamic) but the cost was a lot more and given that this probably won't be daily use, It's less critical. If it was my main rig (which does have the CO fans), then yes I'd make the investment.

Still working on obtaining HDDs, a controller (which is more of a "I don't wanna buy it yet" issue, they're $20ish on ebay lately), and removable drives; I didn't paint the existing burner (as it had a bad spindle bearing, POS), and the DVD drive isn't reading right (didn't like my fedora disc; I did paint the bezel, off the drive). I'm also looking for an Atech card reader (as they make really good ones, even thier low end) but ebay pricing has been shit (best offer's have been rejected or counteroffered at nearly the same price, still too much). Also, none of them have the special USB-B to header cables such AFT readers use (as they were made to be either internal or external) which I have made in the past (main rig 4.1 needed custom long ones anyway) but that's not quite free either to make or buy (if one even can).

So yes, this is a work in progress... but it is coming a long. I'll post in a bit once I get some pics taken.