Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

[shovenose]

If I end up not colo'ing my server, (which I may do depending on if my datacenter of preference has available IPs), I'll need a decent UPS that can power my server for a while, is rackmountable, and not too expensive.
My server has dual redundant 585W PSUs... does that mean I need a ~1000W UPS or a ~600W UPS?
I was looking here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...CE&PageSize=20
and everything was either really expensive, really underpowered, or had really lame runeims (5 minutes, lol!)
Thanks!

[kc8adu]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

i have a apc 3u 1400 in the server rack at the shop that runs the server,cablemodem,router,switch,cameras,dvr,from a pair of 120ah agm batteries in the bottom of the rack.older apc units with bad batteries are cheap and easy to find.
this gives hours rather than minutes of runtime.
troll craigslist and post what you find.older is better.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

You want a true sine wave unit.
.
The simulated sine wave types fuck with PFC.
.

[kc8adu]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

if none of the stuff has pfc who cares?
i have one psu here with apfc and it seems to do just fine on an old best power 850va 12v stepped square wave unit.
it ran 48+ hours on battery after ike took our power out.
some cheapies may not like it but this seasonic did fine.
he is trying to do this on the cheap and get near professional results.this is the way.
now if he finds an old ncr/exide unit like my main pc/av system uses thats the best.but 48v minimum.my 3kva is 60v.cleaner sine than dp&l and no rfi to my hf rig.
hard to find now though.

[shovenose]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

Um, kc8ade, thank you for sharing but would you please write in full words (i only got about half that in your 2nd post lol), you've got to realize I've never messed with UPSes before (except at work to cut the wire off and throw them into the UPS scrap pile lol)...
-shovenose.
I don't know if the IBM server has PFC but it's an IBM xSeries 336 so where would I find that out?

[mariushm]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

Basically any power supply doing more than 80w (or 100w? not sure now) is required by UE to have PFC - so if this model was also sold in Europe, it will have PFC.

The VA rating of the UPS is not the same with the watts of the power supply so you can't compared them directly... but I don't know how to explain it... see this: http://www.jetcafe.org/npc/doc/ups-faq.html#04
It explains it better than me.

Your server has redundant power supplies - I'm not sure but I don't think the second power supply is under load, but rather kept as hot spare, so the second psu will probably only use about 20-30 watts when the system runs.

Even so, the system may have 550w power supply but that doesn't mean the system uses 550w all the time, it probably uses about 150 watts on idle so it probably uses about 180-200w from the wall, due to the power supply's efficiency (which should be about 75-85% for those psus.

A 500VA ups will probably give you up to about 10 minutes of battery time.

Don't worry to much when it comes to the type of ups (true sine wave or not), personally I don't think it matters that much. I would be more concerned if it's off-line, line-interactive or online ups or other type.
See the differences here:

Ideally, you should get at least a line-interactive one but most cheap ones arent.

[Uranium-235]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

why do you need a rackmount? your other thread on the server shows you have no rack. is your area prone to power issues? if you're just going to use it as a minecraft server, and shut it off at night, why even get a UPS? I have my PE 1800 fileserver running so far 24/7 with no power interruptions, but then again i'm on the TCU power grid appearently

[severach]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

My server has dual redundant 585W PSUs... does that mean I need a ~1000W UPS or a ~600W UPS?

The theoretical max power means nothing. Measure the actual power draw with your Kill-a-Watt and size the UPS from that. UPS are an oft discard item so there's no reason to buy or skimp. Get a behemoth and don't worry the power. I've got a couple of Eaton Powerware 9125 (1000 ,2000) 2U that I'd like to get rid of.

Stepped sine waves and APFC problems are history. Many modern APFC controllers detect the stepped sine and drop out and in as necessary making them compatible with stepped and true sine. Set your Kill-a-Watt to Power Factor (PF) and pull the plug on your UPS to watch this live. If the PF drops from .99 to .65 and there are no strange noises then the APFC supply is compatible.

You will need a true sine UPS if you have an APFC supply that doesn't autoswitch. Stepped sine UPS are more efficient so you prefer them if your supply can take it.

[kc8adu]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

what dont you understand?
apfc= active power factor correction.
kva= kilo volt amps which is the standard rating unit for ups.
dp&l= local utility co
rfi= radio frequency interference
hf= amateur radio allocation from 10-160 meters.
the 48 and 60v ratings are the battery bank voltages.

Um, kc8ade, thank you for sharing but would you please write in full words (i only got about half that in your 2nd post lol), you've got to realize I've never messed with UPSes before (except at work to cut the wire off and throw them into the UPS scrap pile lol)...
-shovenose.
I don't know if the IBM server has PFC but it's an IBM xSeries 336 so where would I find that out?

[shovenose]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

OK got it
I'm going to wait for quotes from the colo companies (and forum owners *cough cough*) that I've contacted about colocation

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

Despite what kc8 thinks or that he got lucky with one set-up when you use a non-sine wave UPS with PFC it drives the first stage voltage [the voltage on the input caps] much higher than the 1.41 x line volts the PSUs are designed for.
-
That problem is documented online complete with o'scope readings - but hard to find.
There IS a thread on it here at BCN complete with o'scope traces.
* Don't confuse it with the other problem PFC causes related to the inrush current when it switches over to batt power.
That is more publicized, what severach [and I think kc8] was talking about, and not the the same problem.
What I'm talking about is -after- they switch to batt while they are running. - Not during the switch over.
UPS manufactures downplay the problem I'm talking about by deliberately confusing people with info on the other problem.
As you can see a lot of people buy the hype.
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PFC assumes volts and amps are out of phase and tries to put them in phase.
Simulated sine waves aren't that far out of phase for most of the cycle so the voltage over-shoots.
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What I'm talking about is very bad with 220v line voltage and luck of the draw on 120v line power.
[Since many that read this forum are on 220v grids the problem should be stressed and not downplayed when UPS units are brought up.]
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On a 220v grid the non-sine wave UPS + PFC combination will commonly drive the PSU input stage voltage to 470-480v.
That will vary buy the specific PSU and UPS.
[I recall one case where it measured at 497v on the input caps.]
The PSU designer would be expecting 220v x 1.4 = 308v there which is why the input caps [and probably other parts in there] are usually only rated for 400v to 450v.
The problem with 470-480v on 400-450v caps should be obvious.
.
On a 120v grid it's right on the edge.
The problem cam make PSU input voltage go to 235-240v or more.
Expected would be 120v x 1.4 = 168v.
So, PSU input caps for a 120v grid are usually 200-250v.
If you lucked out and got 250v input caps you should be okay.
If you got 200v or 220v input caps then you're probably screwed.
.
And note: On either grid even if the caps are rated to handle the unexpectedly high voltage other parts in the PSU might not be.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

IBM xSeries 336 uses at least 4 different 585w PSUs so you'll have to pull one and get the model number and look that up to find out if you have PFC.
Being as it's IBM and not super old my guess would be that you do. [Just a guess.]
.
Use sine-wave UPS units aren't any more expensive than used crap ones because few sellers even know the difference.
And -SOME- APC 750-1500 VA non-rack units are true sine wave. - Have to look up the specs by model number.
I haven't had any trouble finding them cheap [$25-$50 and sometimes less or free] with dead batteries.
Craigslist has been pretty good for that here. Almost always a few listed.
They are heavy so ebay and shipping makes them more expensive real fast.
.
Your other question.
You have a 585w PSU.
Having two [redundant PSUs] doesn't make your system use double the watts.
A 750 VA unit should be more than adequate.
.

[shovenose]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

That's a shitload of info to absorb, so thank you!
i'll be back after poking around on the local craigslist

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

Up that 750 to 1000 VA. (Geriatric moment...) More margin and longer run time.

This is one of the models I was talking about. I have several.
http://www.apc.com/resource/include/..._sku=su1000net
You have to check by the -complete- -correct- model number to know for sure it's sine wave.
That usually means you have to ask the seller.
That one is model SU1000NET.

I also have a few 1500 VA units but the ones I have are 220v models so those numbers won't help you.
.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

Here's another. - It's just the newer replacement for the other 'obsolete' one.
http://www.apc.com/products/resource..._sku=SUA1000US
Model SUA1000US

[Toasty]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

Um, kc8ade, thank you for sharing but would you please write in full words <snip>

ROFLMAO!!

and I add >> Good luck with that!

[Toasty]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

SU1400 needs batteries - $100 on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/360427599113

Batteries SLA-12V18-X2 or RBC7 are ~$60-$70 + shipping.

It's not a rack mount, but why is that important?

Toast

[shovenose]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

it needs t be;rackmount because I want it to be rackmount.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

You know,
If you have a rack with only one server in it and you slide open the drawer the thing is apt to tip over on you.
.

[shovenose]

Re: Is there a UPS that fits my needs?

I will have two servers, a ups, and a network switch...