Seagate 1tb Click Of Death
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Re: Seagate 1tb Click Of Death
And a Caviar 1 GB I had, pre-1998, always fails after 238 MB!
DOS' FORMAT.COM usually displayed "Format terminated" with any attempt to format past 238 MB and I also got a click-of-death.Last edited by RJARRRPCGP; 01-29-2012, 04:59 PM.ASRock B550 PG Velocita
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Re: Seagate 1tb Click Of Death
I would stay far, far away from Barracuda ES. And you know that Seagate is now only doing 3 years along with WD?Comment
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Re: Seagate 1tb Click Of Death
Just to report that hard drive has now failed. I'm not really surprised, though. Actually it failed about 4 weeks ago, but I forgot to post about it. Only remembered now after I saw the smart logs on my flash drive. The bad sectors finally reached the files for the operating system.
When it was still working way back, I ran a HDTune test on it. Anytime I did a big read or write operation, the bad sector count would go up. The HDTune test alone increased the bad sector count by 1000. Probably a bad head stack. I've saved the hard drive. Will open it (if I don't forget) the next time I go to work (don't know when that will be, though).
Did you have it apart???Comment
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Re: Seagate 1tb Click Of Death
Yup, just did that last week after I took it home. It's a single platter drive. The top surface looks fine. If the heads really are scratching like I'm suspecting (it sounds so, at least when the HD tries to read certain areas of the platters), it must be on the bottom surface. I will take it apart again when I have more time, this time removing the headstack and the platter as well.
The number of bad sectors aside, that hard drive is still working! It gets recognized by the BIOS and even tries to load Windows when I start it on my computer (but it fails since I'm trying it on a completely different motherboard and processor).Comment
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Re: Seagate 1tb Click Of Death
I've done that before. The drive will still work, but for how long, who knows?
It certainly won't get any better, that's for sure!
If the drive is multi-platter you run a huge risk of screwing it up, if you get the platters misaligned. Of course if you open it outside of a cleanroom you will screw it anyway.
But it might live long enough to do some data recovery..."Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
-David VanHornComment
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Re: Seagate 1tb Click Of Death
What regular WD Greens (and only these) are notorious for is parking their heads after a 4 second timeout on a plastic ramp to the side of the platters (supposedly reducing friction and saving power. BS if you ask me).
Because they do that all the time, the drives die early. I've seen 1 year old 1TB WD Greens with 400-500k head parking counts in SMART. No need to explain why they had trouble reading and kept losing the partition table. Out of head alignment from all the parking crap.
Originally posted by ScenicThe performance of those green drives really isn't all that bad. Especially if you consider the price (before the Thailand stuff) and how cool they run. Most of the time these green drives don't even need a fan and still stay near or below 35°C.
I also agree that larger drives are more prone to fail, especially with more platters and especially in the case of mechanical HDDs. The only advantage I can think of with a two platter drive (as opposed to one) is lasting longer if one platter fails. I would only trust a 1TB drive at the very most, and a two platter one at that - anything more and I think one is bounded for failure. It kind of expounds upon why older (quality) drives tend to last so long. Also, unless in huge amounts over a short span of time, reallocated sectors don't worry me that much. They'll certainly stress the drive more and will wan performance, but the operating system cannot see them so I can't see them causing much trouble such as the above example. Pending sectors are far more worrying to me, especially with surfeits of them, along with offline uncorrectable sectors. I have a Toshiba MK1637GSX that has 110 pending sectors (not sure why they haven't been reallocated yet with only 9 reallocations, and since there are no offline uncorrectable sectors, but the S.M.A.R.T. log shows 6,409 errors!) and often I hear it scratching and clicking when the HDD is writing or reading slowly enough (it seems to never happen when the drive is rapidly working). It sounds like this...
Tick tick...
Tick tick...
TICK TICK CHTICKEETIE....
Tick tick.
Tick.
It's not literally ticking. More 'chitting', if you like. But it does tick when you hear it scratch and/or click. I guess Superfetch doesn't help (the drive has Vista Home Premium 32-bit on it) - it seems to work the hard drive more. Disabling it helps a might bit. Turning on Windows Search seems to help even more - it has the drive working quickly, so not nearly as many ticks, scratches, or clicks are heard, though it's not very good for heat and power.
But I know those sounds definitely denote the pending sectors. I can't even get it to complete, say, the full benchmark of HD Tach (by Simpli Software) because of it. As for Seagate and the original topic of discussion, I don't care for what became of Seagate once they merged with Maxtor. Before they were fantastic. But after.... I'd call them more Maxtorgate. Or Seamaxtor. But they're not Seagate to me anymore. The quality control and quality itself is just too far gone.Last edited by Wester547; 02-24-2012, 04:28 AM.Comment
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Re: Seagate 1tb Click Of Death
I believe spin down is the culprit of the premature deaths of WD Green and Scorpio Blues, not as much the head parking. I don't imagine that parking the heads off the ramp is anywhere near as drudging for a drive than incessantly spinning up and down, especially at inconveniencing times (especially with regard to spinning up, as the process of spinning up is toughest on the spindle motor).
I also agree that larger drives are more prone to fail, especially with more platters and especially in the case of mechanical HDDs. The only advantage I can think of with a two platter drive (as opposed to one) is lasting longer if one platter fails.- The first track is read by head 0,
- The second track is read by head 1,
- The third track is read by head 2,
- The fourth track is read by head 3,
Then it switches to the next cylinder and repeats.
A little like RAID 0 except that it only does it to increase capacity, not transfer rate.
Also, unless in huge amounts over a short span of time, reallocated sectors don't worry me that much. They'll certainly stress the drive more and will wan performance, but the operating system cannot see them so I can't see them causing much trouble such as the above example. Pending sectors are far more worrying to me, especially with surfeits of them, along with offline uncorrectable sectors. I have a Toshiba MK1637GSX that has 110 pending sectors (not sure why they haven't been reallocated yet with only 9 reallocations, and since there are no offline uncorrectable sectors, but the S.M.A.R.T. log shows 6,409 errors!) and often I hear it scratching and clicking when the HDD is writing or reading slowly enough (it seems to never happen when the drive is rapidly working). It sounds like this...
Tick tick...
Tick tick...
TICK TICK CHTICKEETIE....
Tick tick.
Tick.
It's not literally ticking. More 'chitting', if you like. But it does tick when you hear it scratch and/or click. I guess Superfetch doesn't help (the drive has Vista Home Premium 32-bit on it) - it seems to work the hard drive more. Disabling it helps a might bit.
But I know those sounds definitely denote the pending sectors. I can't even get it to complete, say, the full benchmark of HD Tach (by Simpli Software) because of it. As for Seagate and the original topic of discussion, I don't care for what became of Seagate once they merged with Maxtor. Before they were fantastic. But after.... I'd call them more Maxtorgate. Or Seamaxtor. But they're not Seagate to me anymore. The quality control and quality itself is just too far gone.
I had two bad Seagate 1TB drives. The first one was an ST31000333AS from, surprise surprise, a Maxtor-branded USB enclosure. SMART looked fine, but it would act up once in a while and I eventually took it to bits. The second one is an ST31000524AS which developed lots of bad sectors. I don't know about you, but I would act likeif I saw 1000 reallocations on one of my own drives.
OTOH, I am still using an OLD ST380011A (from an old whitebox from 08/2004; 37,226 hours on the clock) for my, uh, important stuff. If there's any type of abuse that will destroy that thing, I haven't found it. It's heavy too. (At least for a drive with one platter...)
I even had an ST320414A (which wasn't MY old drive) fall about 1m to the floor. (The cat knocked it off.) When I plugged it in, it worked fine. I was careful enough not to drop the ST380011A - good thing, because that was before I had a backup of anything.
If they really are going downhill, it's sad because they made some ridiculously tough drives in the past. The last generation I feel confident in using for anything important is the 7200.8, maybe the 7200.9.
I guess I have two options. Western Digital, or enterprise drives.Comment
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Re: Seagate 1tb Click Of Death
Originally posted by ShockerI did get my hands on a dead WD Green 1TB last year. It clicked but the motor was fine.
Originally posted by ShockerIf one head fails, the entire drive goes down. The platters are interleaved. So if the drive has four heads,- The first track is read by head 0,
- The second track is read by head 1,
- The third track is read by head 2,
- The fourth track is read by head 3,
Then it switches to the next cylinder and repeats.
A little like RAID 0 except that it only does it to increase capacity, not transfer rate.
Originally posted by ShockerI had two bad Seagate 1TB drives. The first one was an ST31000333AS from, surprise surprise, a Maxtor-branded USB enclosure. SMART looked fine, but it would act up once in a while and I eventually took it to bits. The second one is an ST31000524AS which developed lots of bad sectors. I don't know about you, but I would act likeif I saw 1000 reallocations on one of my own drives.
OTOH, I am still using an OLD ST380011A (from an old whitebox from 08/2004; 37,226 hours on the clock) for my, uh, important stuff. If there's any type of abuse that will destroy that thing, I haven't found it. It's heavy too. (At least for a drive with one platter...)
I even had an ST320414A (which wasn't MY old drive) fall about 1m to the floor. (The cat knocked it off.) When I plugged it in, it worked fine. I was careful enough not to drop the ST380011A - good thing, because that was before I had a backup of anything.
If they really are going downhill, it's sad because they made some ridiculously tough drives in the past. The last generation I feel confident in using for anything important is the 7200.8, maybe the 7200.9.
My only issue with those drive series (the 7200RPM ones in particular, and other 7200RPM drives of the time from other companies) is how much heat they generate without cooling from a fan, even at idle. Older drives seem to run significantly hotter. Also, the scratching doesn't surprise me - I've never heard good things about Toshiba (who only make portable and mobile drives, to my recollection) and would think them to be the worst of the companies manufacturing HDDs, in spite of HDD quality depending (usually) not so much on the company.
Originally posted by ShockerI guess I have two options. Western Digital, or enterprise drives.Last edited by Wester547; 02-24-2012, 04:03 PM.Comment
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Re: Seagate 1tb Click Of Death
I would think something was askew with the media then. Maybe the mechanical subsystem had ado reading it. But I'm certain that spinning up and down a drive often is a far more certain token of death than parking the heads. But perhaps the Caviar Green/Scorpio Blue drives are not suited to head parking perpetually for some reason.
I thought Seagate to be wonderful in 2005 and before. I have a ST3250824A, which is of the 7200.9 Barracuda series PATA drives. It's a 250GB and it still works nary a problem to this day. S.M.A.R.T. thinks otherwise, seeing 8 reallocations, 9 reported/uncorrected errors and 1 pending/offline uncorrectable sector, but I think that's fine for a drive that has 20,000 hours on it and for a drive that has been power cycled 3,000 times. Judging by the S.M.A.R.T. log, those issue only arose within 19,000 hours of its life. I have some 7200.7 series and ATA IV series drives as well (a ST3160023A, a ST3120026A, and two ST340016As; one of them is in rather exacerbated condition but I think that's because of problems it had with the master boot record a year after I had it, and I also have a few others). They all work fine. Some of them have bad sectors but considering their age (and that they were power cycled twice the amount), I consider that tenable.
http://www.hddstatus.com/hdrepshowre...ation=A5554B7B
Care is nothing to write home about though.
I think power cycles are harder on drives than power on hours.
My only issue with those drive series (the 7200RPM ones in particular, and other 7200RPM drives of the time from other companies) is how much heat they generate without cooling from a fan, even at idle. Older drives seem to run significantly hotter.
Also, the scratching doesn't surprise me - I've never heard good things about Toshiba (who only make portable and mobile drives, to my recollection) and would think them to be the worst of the companies manufacturing HDDs, in spite of HDD quality depending (usually) not so much on the company.
I wonder if SSDs could be an alternative now that the floods in Thailand have raked up the prices of HDDs so caustically. We still have to take the read/write cycle limitation into account but outside of that and expenses, I think much more effectual use could be made out of a SSD.
And maybe Seagate Barracuda's (and Momentus drives) could last, so long as they are not ordered online (due to the physical woes drives may be subject to with shipping) so long as they are treated very well.
Oh, and what I said earlier:
I even had an ST320414A (which wasn't MY old drive) fall about 1m to the floor.
But that doesn't mean you'll get away with dropping a drive onto a carpet.
Comment
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Re: Seagate 1tb Click Of Death
Originally posted by ShockerMine has 26...
http://www.hddstatus.com/hdrepshowre...ation=A5554B7B
Care is nothing to write home about though.
Originally posted by ShockerSure, but the motor hardly ever fails (unless it's a ball bearing motor and you leave it on 24/7). What actually goes wrong is either wear at the head/platter interface or misalignment from repeated load/unloading.
Originally posted by ShockerFor me, 50°C is good enough.Last edited by Wester547; 02-25-2012, 04:02 PM.Comment
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Re: Seagate 1tb Click Of Death
Motor makes a noise like an old fridge, when you listen to it from afar... but it refuses to die.
Yeah but when you've already got 26, more will usually follow..."Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
-David VanHornComment
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Re: Seagate 1tb Click Of Death
I don't argue that - that's why 49 changed to 50 on my old drive. :P But I still think the drive will last a while longer.
And a IC35L040AVVN07 I have has a ball bearing motor but lasted 15,000 hours of use (and 5,000 power cycles) just fine - only 6 reallocated sectors, 7 reallocation events, and 1 pending sector (though the pending sector is my fault - it arose after running chkdsk of my own volition), along with 19 S.M.A.R.T. errors (2 being from that run of chkdsk). Not saying drives with ball bearing motors can't last long, I just think fluid bearings would ultimately be more reliable (and more quiet, though the IC35L040AVVN07 is a quiet drive already).Comment
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Re: Seagate 1tb Click Of Death
Running CHKDSK won't cause drive damage, it just ends up reading files (and thus sectors) that otherwise wouldn't often be read and shows up defects.
Those sectors already had issues, you just weren't doing anything with them and therefore didn't know there was an issue with them until you ran CHKDSK and it tried to read\write them.
In saying that though, if a drive is borderline, running intensive programs like CHKDSK can push it over the edge."Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
-David VanHornComment
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