Where do you get your capacitors?!

[Demonata08]

So, im a hobbyist at repairing tvs. I actually find great satisfaction in making something work that previously didnt. But im starting to notice a big problem. Ive repaired about 5 tvs on my own now. They were all bad caps except one bad resistor.

The issue is that normally ive noticed that when one capacitor fails the others are aged pretty bad too. If i want to do things right i should replace all the capacitors that are aging. But every tv ive came across has used wildly different capacitors so stocking a few different types seems pointless. The power supplies ive been messing with have had about 6-8 different larger capacitors at about 5 a piece on mouser.

At that price i could buy two replacement working power supply boards on ebay. So am i missing something here or is it as it seems and its almost always a better idea to just buy replacement boards unless none are available.

Im hoping someone can point me to an assortment pack with actual good tv type high and low voltage capacitors. I prefer to work on the boards myself and so i would love any pointers on how you guys do it. Id love to know there some typical capacitors kit out there even though ive looked and looked and all i can find is the cheap kind that hardly get above 10v above 500uf.

[stj]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

check all the u.s. supplier minimum order levels for free shipping - someone must be reasonable!!
what is element14 like??

[Demonata08]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

check all the u.s. supplier minimum order levels for free shipping - someone must be reasonable!!
what is element14 like??

Theyre not much better. Still a little cheaper than mouser though. The problem im having is i can buy in bulk to save money in the future but every tv ive seen needed different types of capacitors so it seems kinda stupid to buy in bulk

[R_J]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

I use Digikey, they are fast, usually next day to Canada for $8.00, Free shipping on orders over $100.00

[Retro-Hipster]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

I tend to recommend that people who are just sorting starting out, building up components, buy Sample Kits. These kits are sent out/sold to manufacturers so that they can test the components and such before using them in their products. Here is an example kit from Nichicon.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...SABEgKpK_D_BwE

You can also get them from the cheaper brands like jwco that will have about 4x as many capacitors as the nichicon one. What route you take really is up to you though. I honestly recommend buying some of the cheap kits to start out, then buy the nice parts as they are needed for a project if you are just starting out. You may end up replacing the cheap capacitors down the road in a device, but taking advantage of the learning curve and really getting a lot of experience quickly, at the start will go a long way.

That being said, If the thing you are working on really matters, then maybe use the nichicons instead of the jwco's. lol

[coreAngel]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

I tend to recommend that people who are just sorting starting out, building up components, buy Sample Kits. These kits are sent out/sold to manufacturers so that they can test the components and such before using them in their products. Here is an example kit from Nichicon.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...SABEgKpK_D_BwE

You can also get them from the cheaper brands like jwco that will have about 4x as many capacitors as the nichicon one. What route you take really is up to you though. I honestly recommend buying some of the cheap kits to start out, then buy the nice parts as they are needed for a project if you are just starting out. You may end up replacing the cheap capacitors down the road in a device, but taking advantage of the learning curve and really getting a lot of experience quickly, at the start will go a long way.

That being said, If the thing you are working on really matters, then maybe use the nichicons instead of the jwco's. lol

You are correct the sample kits are what i use on occasion if i need some caps to test out this Particular kit you mentioned is a good price

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...SABEgKpK_D_BwE

for only 56 dollars including shipping (you can select priority mail shipping, i highly recommend it)
is actually cheaper than buying it individually, which totals to 85 including shipping.

I have purchased Lelon kits (back then on Mouser) just for testing out projects and then purchase the good stuff.

I have used Mouser and Digikey and they have good customer service
and i always get what i ask for.

[Demonata08]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

I tend to recommend that people who are just sorting starting out, building up components, buy Sample Kits. These kits are sent out/sold to manufacturers so that they can test the components and such before using them in their products. Here is an example kit from Nichicon.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...SABEgKpK_D_BwE

You can also get them from the cheaper brands like jwco that will have about 4x as many capacitors as the nichicon one. What route you take really is up to you though. I honestly recommend buying some of the cheap kits to start out, then buy the nice parts as they are needed for a project if you are just starting out. You may end up replacing the cheap capacitors down the road in a device, but taking advantage of the learning curve and really getting a lot of experience quickly, at the start will go a long way.

That being said, If the thing you are working on really matters, then maybe use the nichicons instead of the jwco's. lol

Yeah ive heard of the sample book idea. Ive bought a few kits. the problem is that they all seem to come with low voltage capacitors. most every tv ive repaired the small capicators are fine, its the big ones that have given out.

like my current project at the moment, two 450v 1200 uf capacitors are way below capacity. But in reality all the other capacitors have aged too. i can replace those two that are causing the problem now for 10 dollars. but replacing the other will run more into the 25-30 range. and a working power supply board is around 25.

I see the argument that more then likely the ebay seller didnt replace all the caps on the working board. So i guess i get that side of it.

Do any of you know a kit that includes common P board capacitors? maybe in the 200-450v range?

[Retro-Hipster]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

AH, yeah, that kind of sucks to find. haha I mean, there are definitely higher voltage capacitor kits from people like Nichicon (ie: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...SABEgJPEfD_BwE ), but getting high capacity/high voltage type caps can be a bit rough in a kit. :/

This is the sort of thing I have just purchased 5(or 1 extra in the case of huge caps like that) of at a time every time I came to a part I needed but didn't have off of Mouser. I would be interested if there are any high capacitence+high voltage cap kits too but I suspect that they would be prohibitively expensive as it were.

Something I have done in the past is just buy some tv capacitor kits that had a wide range of capacitors, plus some of the big ones. The quality varies though.. nothing like what you get when you get sample kits from suppliers like Nichicon.

[Demonata08]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

AH, yeah, that kind of sucks to find. haha I mean, there are definitely higher voltage capacitor kits from people like Nichicon (ie: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...SABEgJPEfD_BwE ), but getting high capacity/high voltage type caps can be a bit rough in a kit. :/

This is the sort of thing I have just purchased 5(or 1 extra in the case of huge caps like that) of at a time every time I came to a part I needed but didn't have off of Mouser. I would be interested if there are any high capacitence+high voltage cap kits too but I suspect that they would be prohibitively expensive as it were.

Something I have done in the past is just buy some tv capacitor kits that had a wide range of capacitors, plus some of the big ones. The quality varies though.. nothing like what you get when you get sample kits from suppliers like Nichicon.

Thats actually a really good value kit. thanks for sharing! Now if i can get something like that between 100uf and even just 1000 but preferably 5000, I'd be set.

[retiredcaps]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

like my current project at the moment, two 450v 1200 uf capacitors are way below capacity.

How are you measuring the uF above? What test tool? and what is "way below capacity"?

[Demonata08]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

How are you measuring the uF above? What test tool? and what is "way below capacity"?

A pretty multimeter that can also measure capacitance. it was days ago now but i think the two were measuring in the 800s. I have a nice ESR meter coming right now to double check them and a few other of my projects.

[retiredcaps]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

A pretty multimeter that can also measure capacitance. it was days ago now but i think the two were measuring in the 800s. I have a nice ESR meter coming right now to double check them and a few other of my projects.

A multimeter may not be too accurate. Most electrolytic caps have a +/- 20% rating.

1200 * 0.8 = 960 uF.

Usually, the big caps don't go bad very often. I haven't replaced one yet. That will help keep the costs down vs buying an used power supply board off ebay.

Don't forget that the used power supply will have the same crappy caps to begin with. They may not look bloated, but may be out of spec.

[Demonata08]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

A multimeter may not be too accurate. Most electrolytic caps have a +/- 20% rating.

1200 * 0.8 = 960 uF.

Usually, the big caps don't go bad very often. I haven't replaced one yet. That will help keep the costs down vs buying an used power supply board off ebay.

Don't forget that the used power supply will have the same crappy caps to begin with. They may not look bloated, but may be out of spec.

Its funny to see that said. All ive replaced are the big ones. Although i havent done many so maybe im just unlucky. And yeah. I realize a failed cap with resistance can register as capacitance on these multimeters. I spent quite a lot on mine though. I dont think its been wrong yet. Normally the ones it shows as bad are bad. Still have that esr meter on the way though.

Whats the typical issue you deal with the most?

[Retro-Hipster]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

Ah, just the tip when you get your ESR meter in. ESR meters kind of expect you to know what testing conditions a specific type of capacitor will want generally. This is because capacity doesn't necessarily tell you what type of capacitor it is. For instance, most larger electrolytics should be tested at about 120 hertz which makes it a bit inconvenient in terms of testing their esr in circuit. ( you really should have at least 100k Hertz for testing in circuit) if you test one of these electrolytic with your ESR meter at a higher frequency, say 1khz-10khz, you'll get a very inaccurate esr or you won't get a reading back at all because it will simply be too fast a charge and discharge cycle to accurately get a charge or discharge constant measured. If you are unfamiliar with ESR meters, I always recommend that you grab the data sheets for the capacitors that you are testing or comprable capacitors and do your ESR tests based on the specs shown in the datasheet.

This dependence on how many hertz you should test a capacitor at is one of the things that make multimeters pretty bad at the job. It's not that they can't be good at it, it's that at the a very extremes (extreme High or low capacitance) the testing conditions they might be using might be incorrect for accurately measuring.

[retiredcaps]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

Whats the typical issue you deal with the most?

Usually obviously bad bloated caps on the secondary side.

[stj]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

if your stocking stuff keep in mind you can often get 16v caps the same size as the 10v ones - so no need for the 10v range.

the same goes for 35v instead of 25v.
watch the price difference on 35v stuff though.

[Demonata08]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

Ah, just the tip when you get your ESR meter in. ESR meters kind of expect you to know what testing conditions a specific type of capacitor will want generally. This is because capacity doesn't necessarily tell you what type of capacitor it is. For instance, most larger electrolytics should be tested at about 120 hertz which makes it a bit inconvenient in terms of testing their esr in circuit. ( you really should have at least 100k Hertz for testing in circuit) if you test one of these electrolytic with your ESR meter at a higher frequency, say 1khz-10khz, you'll get a very inaccurate esr or you won't get a reading back at all because it will simply be too fast a charge and discharge cycle to accurately get a charge or discharge constant measured. If you are unfamiliar with ESR meters, I always recommend that you grab the data sheets for the capacitors that you are testing or comprable capacitors and do your ESR tests based on the specs shown in the datasheet.

This dependence on how many hertz you should test a capacitor at is one of the things that make multimeters pretty bad at the job. It's not that they can't be good at it, it's that at the a very extremes (extreme High or low capacitance) the testing conditions they might be using might be incorrect for accurately measuring.

Just curious, is the same to be said if i test it off circuit? I want the most accurate reads i can get so i have no problem removing them. and also thanks for the info. i'm very much new to esr reading so i never knew that.

[Retro-Hipster]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

Yeah, it's one of those things that really throw you when you first start measuring ESR. lol I was really sad when I got my ESR meter the first time and figured out it wasn't the point and shoot style I was used to with a multimeter. :'D

But yes, because Capacitors are frequency dependent it makes testing them somewhat challenging, even out of the circuit. The best advice I could give would be the idea of getting datasheets for the range of capacitance you work on for the type of capacitor you work with and familiarize yourself with the testing parameters they use. Most charts you find will not include the esr based on ranges of frequencies.

Actually, I didn't think about it, but the datasheets for the Sample Kits would be really good resources for this info. I noticed in those Nichicon datasheets it had the ESR settings listed for their stuff in groups based on capacitance.

---

It's hard to find good articles describing charge/discharge constant and how that relates to multimeters, but a clearer way of understanding this concept is actually the ones involving oscilloscopes anyways. If you read this article, for instance, it should give you an idea of what your ESR and Multimeters are going to be doing to figure out the capacitance. Then think about the implications of a higher frequency when the charge constant becomes to slow to yield measurable results due to the high frequency or the high capacity of the capacitor.
https://www.testandmeasurementtips.c...n-capacitance/

When you are testing really high capacity capacitors and you have a high-frequency charge/discharge cycle, it basically means that the meter is only going to see a linear charge curve. This makes it hard to extrapolate the total capacity of a capacitor because you can't (with real accuracy at least) estimate when the capacitor will fully charge.

Here is a really good video from aew2 on how to measure ESR with an oscilloscope. Your ESR meter will be doing the same sort of math he does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=115erzCCxgE

I hope this all helped. Happy exploring your new tool! ESR meters are pretty invaluable, even if they might seem a little unintuitive at first.

[Demonata08]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

Yeah, it's one of those things that really throw you when you first start measuring ESR. lol I was really sad when I got my ESR meter the first time and figured out it wasn't the point and shoot style I was used to with a multimeter. :'D

But yes, because Capacitors are frequency dependent it makes testing them somewhat challenging, even out of the circuit. The best advice I could give would be the idea of getting datasheets for the range of capacitance you work on for the type of capacitor you work with and familiarize yourself with the testing parameters they use. Most charts you find will not include the esr based on ranges of frequencies.

Actually, I didn't think about it, but the datasheets for the Sample Kits would be really good resources for this info. I noticed in those Nichicon datasheets it had the ESR settings listed for their stuff in groups based on capacitance.

---

It's hard to find good articles describing charge/discharge constant and how that relates to multimeters, but a clearer way of understanding this concept is actually the ones involving oscilloscopes anyways. If you read this article, for instance, it should give you an idea of what your ESR and Multimeters are going to be doing to figure out the capacitance. Then think about the implications of a higher frequency when the charge constant becomes to slow to yield measurable results due to the high frequency or the high capacity of the capacitor.
https://www.testandmeasurementtips.c...n-capacitance/

When you are testing really high capacity capacitors and you have a high-frequency charge/discharge cycle, it basically means that the meter is only going to see a linear charge curve. This makes it hard to extrapolate the total capacity of a capacitor because you can't (with real accuracy at least) estimate when the capacitor will fully charge.

Here is a really good video from aew2 on how to measure ESR with an oscilloscope. Your ESR meter will be doing the same sort of math he does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=115erzCCxgE

I hope this all helped. Happy exploring your new tool! ESR meters are pretty invaluable, even if they might seem a little unintuitive at first.

Just curious. What kinda ESR meter would you recommend. something cheapish but accurate? I dont do this stuff professionally. its just a side hobby.

[Retro-Hipster]

Re: Where do you get your capacitors?!

Ah, Definitely recommend the DE-5000. Very capable and accurate on a really large range of capacitors and inductors. Also gives you just about all the info you could measure for capacitors as well. It's the one I use because I, like you, am just a hobbyist and don't want to spend 500+ on an esr meter. haha

Oh, and bonus nachos, it can be powered from a wall so you can leave it as a bench tool. Oh, one of the attachments it comes with uses some crappy crock clips though. They work, but I'd recommend looking at some youtube videos on switching them over to kelvin clips/leads. It cost about 20$ to do and is much more useful.