List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

[PeteS in CA]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

The board has been running for nearly 10 years in a 19" 2HE case that had poor maintenance (that's why it had gathered quite an amount of dust).
Since the 1500µ are spread all over the board, I guess the temperature in the whole case was considerably high.

Your comment about the location of the capacitors is an interesting and probably very good inference. ~96,000 hours - 10 years at ~9600 hours per year - is probably a very good life span for a series rated for 2000-3000 hours (at maximum rated ripple current and temperature).

If I recall correctly, special-built computer rooms are class 10,000 clean rooms, plus having dedicated air conditioners (if not water cooling). But servers often get located in communications closets that have poor temperature control, or other locations with poor temperature control and cleanliness. In electronics, heat is seldom a good thing, and dust and debris never are.

[Majestyk]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

I think youŕe right.
The board has been running for nearly 10 years in a 19" 2HE case that had poor maintenance (that's why it had gathered quite an amount of dust).
Since the 1500µ are spread all over the board, I guess the temperature in the whole case was considerably high.

So the Panasonics probably did what they are supposed to - stay healthy for their normal lifespan and then slowly loosing capacity and at the same time raising ESR.

What we can probably learn is, when it comes to older mainboards, even if they only have top quality capacitors on them they might be EOL and should be replaced if the board is to be used for another couple of years.

Best practise could be to take out a few samples of every capacitor type used and check if capacity and ESR still match the specified values. If a significant number fail - replace them all.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

How old were the caps? Nothing lasts forever, electrolytic capacitors in stressful applications especially (in addition to the normal stress of running 24x7x52, was the server "room" an uncooled closet or experience an air conditioner failure? a system fan failure somewhat recently?).

Failure after long use does not mean bad quality capacitors. Failure after compromised cooling does not mean bad quality capacitors.

[ben7]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

Of course Panasonic is NOT among the badcap brands but the other day I repaired an ASUS PVL-D DSual Xeon Serverboard that had 4 defective "KZG" (820uF 6.3V) on it which I replaced with Nichicon FP polymer capacitors.

On the board there are also 8 Panasonic 1500uF 6.3V 105° CFJ / 5NIIIUS capacitors that turned out to have a capacity of only 450uF - 750uF left and ESRs of about 0.6 Ohms.
No visual signs of leakage / bulging could be found.

I replaced them with Nichicon HM of the same form factor (8x20mm) and the board is running perfectly again.

So I was a bit disappointed of the Pannies.

Could have been poor design, or the PSU has bad capacitors too, stressing those pannasonics too much.

[Majestyk]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

Of course Panasonic is NOT among the badcap brands but the other day I repaired an ASUS PVL-D DSual Xeon Serverboard that had 4 defective "KZG" (820uF 6.3V) on it which I replaced with Nichicon FP polymer capacitors.

On the board there are also 8 Panasonic 1500uF 6.3V 105° CFJ / 5NIIIUS capacitors that turned out to have a capacity of only 450uF - 750uF left and ESRs of about 0.6 Ohms.
No visual signs of leakage / bulging could be found.

I replaced them with Nichicon HM of the same form factor (8x20mm) and the board is running perfectly again.

So I was a bit disappointed of the Pannies.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

I don't know whether Nichicon reformulated the electrolyte, or whether they switched to a different electrolyte, but the PR and PL series continued until being discontinued due to RoHS. The PS and PM series are RoHS-compliant versions of PR and PL (respectively).

[theOracle]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

In defense of Rubycon, MBZ/MCZ seem to be weak rather than bad, if other capacitors have problems on the board, then the Rubycon's fold up like a cheap suit! - or if there is abnormally high heat or ripple.

Well, when I said "barring the 1990s fiasco", I meant exactly that, which includes both Rubycon, Nichicon, and United/Nippon Chemi-con, along with Elna

Yes! - I forgot to mention a lot of the quaternary ammonium compounds series from the 90's that you are referring to, that have very high failure rates when they get older - Nichicon PF is the most notable, but there were MANY other series that used this failed technology including:

Nichicon: RZ, RT, VZ, ET, PR, PY, PF, PL, PQ, PG, MX, WX, WP, MP
Nippon Chemi-con: LXF, TXF, SXE, SXG, MVK, MFK, MVF, MFF
ELNA: RSH, RSG, RSE, RC2S, RC3S

unfortunately, I do not have a comprehensive list like this concerning Rubycon and Panasonic, but they had some too.

[Wester547]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

You forgot Nichicon PF (M) series from the mid-1990's in your list of bad Japanese cap series

Well, when I said "barring the 1990s fiasco", I meant exactly that, which includes both Rubycon, Nichicon, and United/Nippon Chemi-con, along with Elna - they all had problematic series back then. I still think even those capacitors aren't quite as bad as the faulty run of HM/HNs, KZG/KZJ/TMx, and Sanyo WF, though, and maybe even MBZ/MCZ... some are even of the impression that KZH could be faulty but that might just be a low tolerance for heat relative to the water content in KZH.

[theOracle]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

Seems every Japanese manufacture has their share of bad capacitors, almost. Nichicon - HM/HN 2001-2004 (most of those batches, anyway). United/Nippon Chemi-con - KZG/KZJ and TMZ/TMV (maybe another).... Rubycon, select batches of MBZ/MCZ. And now Sanyo/Suncon with WF. Barring the 1990s fiasco which Elna was included in, Panasonic seem to be the only Japanese brand that doesn't have a problematic series... I really hope the Japanese brands aren't dropping in quality, though...

You forgot Nichicon PF (M) series from the mid-1990's in your list of bad Japanese cap series

[momaka]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

^ ... And all for a total of four hundred and seventy you EFFs
(abbreviation for ultra-Farads?? Or unlimited Farads perhaps )

[Pentium4]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

Not only is the K-Eagle logo in Comic Sans, they couldn't even find the "µ" sign and used uF instead. FAIL.

Good catch That is pretty bad...

[Heihachi_73]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

Not only is the K-Eagle logo in Comic Sans, they couldn't even find the "µ" sign and used uF instead. FAIL.

[Wester547]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

Others bore witness to a similar problem:

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15903

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...=WF#post332849

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...=WF#post285834

Maybe Sanyo WF is a defective series, or maybe there are fakes going around... or maybe it's just the fact that they were used in a hot case since they are aqueuous capacitors and, judging by their specs, are probably pretty high on the spectrum relative to their water content ("ultra" low ESR electrolytic capacitors tend to be) - those kinds of capacitors dry out much quicker with added heat. They are rated for 2,000 hours @ 105*C, while I believe WG is double that.

Seems every Japanese manufacture has their share of bad capacitiors, almost. Nichicon - HM/HN 2001-2004 (most of those batches, anyway). United/Nippon Chemi-con - KZG/KZJ and TMZ/TMV (maybe another).... Rubycon, select batches of MBZ/MCZ. And now Sanyo/Suncon with WF. Barring the 1990s fiasco which Elna was included in, Panasonic seem to be the only Japanese brand that doesn't have a problematic series... I really hope the Japanese brands aren't dropping in quality, though...

[Pentium4]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

Pictures? Were they on a motherboard? Maybe it's your PSU's fault

[theOracle]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

well I never thought I would be calling out our beloved Sanyo (Suncon), maker of the legendary WG series, but I just cracked open a Dell computer with MANY leaking and bulging caps, and all of them are Sanyo WF series




~~~~~~~

[Pentium4]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

I love seeing brands I've never seen before even if they suck They're good size and actually have some weight to them. Although the bung on them is pretty strange, I will upload a picture of that later

I think it is comic sans. pretty sad?

[lti]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

Is that Comic Sans?

[momaka]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

Maybe K-Eagle is the next Panasonic?.... Okay, I seriously doubt that
But hey, at least they got the right capacitance and not lying about it. As long as they can hold it.

[ben7]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

I've never seen those before! :O

[Pentium4]

Re: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers

Never seen this brand before, but they look exactly like HEC primary caps, except with a different name with a stupid font. I doubt they're actually rated for 105C (except maybe for an hour ) and they're probably 330uF....i will check soon

Edit: Wow, actually 470uF...